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Rules issue - what's the verdict?

Pa Jayhawk

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
7,196
62
Country
United States United States
Very interesting question. IMHO, and as sad as it seems, I think it likely goes back to whether or not you were scoring the round on a course scorecard???? Yeah, it sounds pretty flaky, but would also be discouraged that the Pro would not come to an arbitrary decision.

IMO this is kinda like being DQ'ed by signing an improper scorecard. Yeah, it's a freak of nature, but if you were using a normal scorecard which states the local rules, then IMO the local rules would apply. If however you were using you own scorecard then I think the local pro needs to grow a pair and make a decision.

Kinda seems like reading the small print on a contract. If it says it on the card you are using to keep score, it would apply as a local rule unless stated otherwise
 

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
6,388
28
Country
Canada Canada
A hazard has to have a defined margin. Without that there is no hazard. it makes no difference what any local rule says. When the only relief option is stroke and distance, then it isn't a hazard.


If the ball is in the bush its in the hazzard, if it aint, aint. The bush itself defines the margins when no stakes are present. The local rule always prevails unless otherwise posted.
 

Silver

I don't have a handicap.
Dec 5, 2004
1,863
1
If the ball is in the bush its in the hazzard, if it aint, aint. The bush itself defines the margins when no stakes are present. The local rule always prevails unless otherwise posted.

Agreed. The defined margin is as stated on the card. Assuming the card says something like "Treat trees left of fairway as lateral hazard", then if the ball is in the trees, it's in the hazard and if it's not in the trees, then it's not in the hazard. You may occasionally run into arguments as to whether the ball is in the hazard or not; however, you get that with stakes all the time anyhow. Some jerk is always going to try to push it one way or the other when it's clear.

Silly rabbits.
 

Manavs

Bodybuilding Golf Pro
Dec 19, 2008
448
1
Last nite at the mens club, we had a rules issue that rarely would come up. Anyways, here's the scenario.

#5 is a slight dogleg left that requires a draw off the tee or you risk hitting the trees on the left. That said, the left side of the fairway is red staked so you can drop out of the trees where you went in, no closer, counting one, shooting 3. You don't have to re-tee.

Last weekend, there was an amateur tourney that went through and those stakes were removed. In the trees, lost ball, re-tee. Simple enough.

However, local rules dictate on the scorecard for general audience that #5 is red staked on the left side.

A guy I know hits his ball into the left trees, not very deep. He's playing a match play match and his playing partner says he has to re-tee. My buddy balks, stating that local rules show that the left side is red staked, he can drop and be shooting 3 from his drop rather than 3 from the tee with a lost ball.

We sat with the pro and asked him. He said it was a unique thing, as the stakes "were meant to be put back, but weren't".

Comments? I think he should have gotten the drop. This wasn't the amatuer tourney, so local rules should dictate, whether or not the actual stake was in the ground or not.

Needless to say, he was pretty rattle and took an 8. He lost the hole, but did with the match, so it's moot. But it was a tough argument.

R35

I LOVEEEEEEEEEEE Me some rules questions -

In this case the question really is that is an unmarked water hazard still actually a water hazard?

Definition of a water hazard

Water Hazard
A "water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course . All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard.

(I think this falls under those in red)

26/3 Unmarked Water Hazard
awww.usga.org_assets_0_1181_1514_5e6357ca_4421_4dab_a626_4a0fc8b9062c.gif

Q. An unmarked ditch on the left of a hole is in bounds, but the left-hand margin is out of bounds. Accordingly, it is impossible to drop behind the water hazard under Rule 26-1b. A player's ball comes to rest in the ditch. Is the player restricted to playing the ball as it lies or proceeding under Rule 26-1a?
A. It is the responsibility of the Committee to define accurately the margins of water hazards and lateral water hazards — see Rule 33-2a. However, if the Committee has not done so, the ditch is, by definition, a lateral water hazard and the player should be permitted to proceed under Rule 26-1c(i).

So if anything the player should have proceeded under a lateral water hazard rule.


Also note - since it is not stroke play rule 3-3 doubt as to procedure cannot be used. But 2-5 can!
2-5. Doubt as to Procedure; Disputes and Claims

In match play, if a doubt or dispute arises between the players, a player may make a claim. If no duly authorized representative of the Committee is available within a reasonable time, the players must continue the match without delay. The Committee may consider a claim only if the player making the claim notifies his opponent (i) that he is making a claim, (ii) of the facts of the situation and (iii) that he wants a ruling. The claim must be made before any player in the match plays from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players in the match leave the putting green.
A later claim may not be considered by the Committee, unless it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules 6-2a and 9) by an opponent.
Once the result of the match has been officially announced, a later claim may not be considered by the Committee, unless it is satisfied that the opponent knew he was giving wrong information.


What would I have done? Simple, either played it as it lies or go get the pro and have him make a decision on it sight on seen before i played another shot. Because just because the course is not marked doesnt mean that the committee cannot come out there and mark it at the current time.

Case in point -

Back a few years, a classmate of mine who played on the women's team was tied for the lead in a collegiate event going into the last hole. It had rained profusely the night before the final round and the course was saturated. most of the casual water was marked. par 4 hole 2nd shot over water. the two leaders paired in the last group hit their drives a few yards from eachother into what appeared to be casual water. the girl from the other college ASKED my friend - "is this casual water" to which she replied "its not marked". the girl turned around, hit her 3rd shot fat right into the water. my friend step upped to the ball, backed off, and TOLD her playing competitor "i'm not sure if this is casual water, im going to call over a rules official". to which the other girl about had a coniption!!!! sure enuf the rules offical blue blazer, with walkie talkie and all drives over and says "yep, sure is, we mustve missed this spot" and proceeded to pait a big ass white circle around my friends ball and the competitors now divot.

so if your unsure by all means dont get into it with your competitor - remember stroke play you can play 2 balls and ask he committee later and in match play you can go get an official site on scene.

"if your gonna play this game, you better know the rules!
"
080206-Maltbieinside-vmed-9.widec.jpg
 

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