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Rules issue - what's the verdict?

LyleG

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Aug 10, 2006
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I am glad he still won, because the guy he was playing is obviously a total douche,
 
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Rockford35

Rockford35

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I am glad he still won, because the guy he was playing is obviously a total douche,

Worse off, he was playing against a guy and his Dad was on the cart with him. Not ideal, to say the least.

The two didn't know the rules and acted as if they did. Which, I believe is cause for the match to be in the favour of the other opponent.

But, he's not a douche and won anyways. :laugh:

R35
 

ualtim

Carrollton, TX
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Aug 20, 2005
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If the stakes are not present, play it as it lies no? If the ball is lost, play it as a lost ball.
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
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I really think (really) that if there is no demarcation of a lateral hazard, then there is no lateral hazard - local rule be damned. If the groundskeeper screwed up, then the ball should have been played as it lay, or according to the rules for a lost ball, or an unplayable lie - depending on the circumstance, and the match should have continued under protest.
 

gwlee7

Ho's from Rocky Mount, NC
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Jun 15, 2005
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If it is printed on the score card, then IMO, the STATED local rule trumps the lack of the stakes being there. This would be no different from any courses that have whatever local rules deemed necessary printed on the card. An example of this would be marking flower beds and the like as ground under repair.
 

ualtim

Carrollton, TX
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If it is printed on the score card, then IMO, the STATED local rule trumps the lack of the stakes being there. This would be no different from any courses that have whatever local rules deemed necessary printed on the card.

My only issues with that is how do you know which side of the stakes the ball lies on? Unless there is a defined marker as to where the lateral hazard begins, how do you determine if the ball is in or out of the lateral hazard?
 

VtDivot

SLIGHTERED
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Apr 16, 2005
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Worse off, he was playing against a guy and his Dad was on the cart with him. Not ideal, to say the least.


R35

We didn't allow this in match play at my old club. I let it slide one match that I was in, but had to politely remind Dad on a few occaisons that he wasn't allowed to coach his son. I didn't matter, I got waxed anyhow.
 

VtDivot

SLIGHTERED
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Apr 16, 2005
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My only issues with that is how do you know which side of the stakes the ball lies on? Unless there is a defined marker as to where the lateral hazard begins, how do you determine if the ball is in or out of the lateral hazard?

This is a good point - this is why we have paint and stakes
 

gwlee7

Ho's from Rocky Mount, NC
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Jun 15, 2005
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My only issues with that is how do you know which side of the stakes the ball lies on? Unless there is a defined marker as to where the lateral hazard begins, how do you determine if the ball is in or out of the lateral hazard?

Fair enough.
 

floggerrushmd

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Jul 11, 2008
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So we had a similar ruling to this at the course we played in highschool for matches. The fourth hole was a par three that had two very different sets of tees one on top of a hill where you hit through a chute of trees and over a hazard, and one to the side of the green level with the green where the same hazard became OB. There were no stakes, but the hazard was mentioned on the score card and instructions given for how it should be played from each of the tees. So in this case, if the players had agreed to play by local rules from the start then the local rule of red hazard is the ruling.

As for where the line of the hazard is deemed. In match play it would have to be agreed upon by both players or a rules official. This is how it should be ruled and played.
 

JEFF4i

She lives!
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Jul 3, 2006
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As for where the line of the hazard is deemed. In match play it would have to be agreed upon by both players or a rules official. This is how it should be ruled and played.

What happens when one player doesn't agree?

I've been in a similar boat actually and lost a tournament because of it.

OB wasn't clearly marked (and when I say it isn't clearly marked I mean it really wasn't, not "oh well that stake is kind of near a tree", more like, "the stakes are 200 yards apart and you can't see one from the other), and they decided they wanted both players and rules official to agree.

Opponent said it was OB (suprise suprise) and Rules Official said that they locally play it as OB, so he was inclined to call it that. Problem was, it doesn't matter if it's a local rule. In the end he ruled against me. Trying to save some face after our discussion and realizing that despite the logic, I was in a losing battle, I left it be.

Obviously still sour grapes. Moral of the story: Local rule or not, everything should be as clear and defined as possible.
 

Fourputt

Littleton, Colorado
Sep 5, 2006
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I really think (really) that if there is no demarcation of a lateral hazard, then there is no lateral hazard - local rule be damned. If the groundskeeper screwed up, then the ball should have been played as it lay, or according to the rules for a lost ball, or an unplayable lie - depending on the circumstance, and the match should have continued under protest.

+1

This is the only possible answer. By rule, a water hazard is defined by the marked margin, and the point where the ball crossed the margin is your reference point for dropping. If there is no defined margin (no stakes or lines), then there is no reference point, and no way to determine a correct drop. Without the stakes the only recourse is to replay the stroke from the original spot under penalty of stroke and distance.
 

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
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If the stakes are not present, play it as it lies no? If the ball is lost, play it as a lost ball.


local rules always prevail, no exceptions. If the scorecard says the right side bush of 15 is a hazard then its a hazard, stakes or not.
 

Fourputt

Littleton, Colorado
Sep 5, 2006
973
0
local rules always prevail, no exceptions. If the scorecard says the right side bush of 15 is a hazard then its a hazard, stakes or not.

A hazard has to have a defined margin. Without that there is no hazard. it makes no difference what any local rule says. When the only relief option is stroke and distance, then it isn't a hazard.
 

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