Rules question - Provisional ball.

[Pa Jayhawk]

How about this situation?

You hit a tee shot on a par 3 that rolls over the green and under the lip of a rock that is sitting on the edge (but not in) a water hazard. You can't get a club on the ball, and must declare it unplayable. There is no place to take relief that is no closer to the hole. If you try a drop that keeps the spot where the ball lies between you and the hole, the ball goes into the hazard, or is unplayable again (lots of rocks.)

If a ball that is dropped goes in the hazard or there is still interference from what you took relief, it is re-dropped. If it again goes in the hazard, it can be placed where it came in contact with the ground on the drop.

Although your initial comment that "There is no place to take relief that is no closer to the hole", would basically leave me asking why you would be taking a drop if that is what you really meant, as you cannot drop closer to the hole. Although if the ball is not in the hazard, then there would obviously be a very small area in the situation you mention where it could be dropped no closer to the hole.

 

[Eracer]

If a ball that is dropped goes in the hazard or there is still interference from what you took relief, it is re-dropped. If it again goes in the hazard, it can be placed where it came in contact with the ground on the drop.

Although your initial comment that "There is no place to take relief that is no closer to the hole", would basically leave me asking why you would be taking a drop if that is what you really meant, as you cannot drop closer to the hole. Although if the ball is not in the hazard, then there would obviously be a very small area in the situation you mention where it could be dropped no closer to the hole.

This is an extreme situation, to be sure. I'm really just wondering how you proceed when all options for relief (under penalty) appear equally impossible.

1. You can't take relief that is no closer to the hole.
2. Dropping on a line that keeps the original spot between you and the hole places you in a hazard.
3. There is no spot to place the ball that isn't unplayable.
4. Since you declared the original ball "unplayable" you don't have the option to go back to the tee box.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

4. Since you declared the original ball "unplayable" you don't have the option to go back to the tee box.

Yes, you do have the option to go back to the tee box when you declare a ball unplayable.

If there is no other method for which you find adequate to take relief, that would in fact be your option, that would always be an option.

This again assuming the shot that put you in the predicament was made from the teebox (as you mentioned a par 3), otherwise it would be from where you took the last shot.

 

[PureStroke]

Hmmm thats a real good question and situation. If im not mistaken you would first take a 1 stroke penalty and then proceed under rule 20-1 . You must mark where the ball originally was then use 1 or more club lengths from that spot to the side not nearer the hole. Under rule 20-2 a ball must be re dropped if it comes to rest in a hazard and if not possible you then must place the ball where it first made contact with the course within the 1 or two club lenghts of its original position without penalty. Then you proceed with the shot. There are soooo many frikin rules to proceed under when in this situation. If you have 12- 15minutes to waste on a par 3 to figure out how to proceed you might aswell re tee it and find the green with the shot.

 

[Eracer]

Hmmm thats a real good question and situation. If im not mistaken you would first take a 1 stroke penalty and then proceed under rule 20-1 . You must mark where the ball originally was then use 1 or more club lengths from that spot to the side not nearer the hole. Under rule 20-2 a ball must be re dropped if it comes to rest in a hazard and if not possible you then must place the ball where it first made contact with the course within the 1 or two club lenghts of its original position without penalty. Then you proceed with the shot. There are soooo many frikin rules to proceed under when in this situation. If you have 12- 15minutes to waste on a par 3 to figure out how to proceed you might aswell re tee it and find the green with the shot.

If only it were that easy...

From reading Rule 28, and seeing that the penalty for proceeding incorrectly is 2 strokes (loss of hole in match play,) that might be the only option under the extreme circumstance I considered.

1st shot - tee off.
2nd shot - drop closer to the hole.
Add 2 strokes.
Continue to hole out.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

If only it were that easy...

From reading Rule 28, and seeing that the penalty for proceeding incorrectly is 2 strokes (loss of hole in match play,) that might be the only option under the extreme circumstance I considered.

1st shot - tee off.
2nd shot - drop closer to the hole.
Add 2 strokes.
Continue to hole out.

I'm lost Eracer, and as mentioned in my initial post in the thread, my post just prior to Purestroke's last, and mentioned again by Purestroke. Reteeing 3 is always an option. Why wouldn't you just hit 3 off the tee?

edit 1 - Part A: the rule 28 you mention.
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

 

[Fourputt]

How about this situation?

You hit a tee shot on a par 3 that rolls over the green and under the lip of a rock that is sitting on the edge (but not in) a water hazard. You can't get a club on the ball, and must declare it unplayable. There is no place to take relief that is no closer to the hole. If you try a drop that keeps the spot where the ball lies between you and the hole, the ball goes into the hazard, or is unplayable again (lots of rocks.)

You play again from the tee. Sometimes that is the only possibility.

The same rule applies (Rule 28) if you hit deep into the woods and find your ball unplayable. There may be no way to drop back along a line from the hole through your ball, and it would take 5 or 6 2 clublength drops (with a one stroke penalty each time) to get to a spot where you have a shot to escape. In such a case you would also return to the previous spot and play under penalty of stroke and distance.

BTW Pureslice, Rule 20-1 has nothing to do with this situation. As long as he proceeds correctly under Rule 28, there is nothing about Rule 20 that applies unless he doesn't know how to drop a ball.

 

[Eracer]

I'm lost Eracer, and as mentioned in my initial post in the thread, my post just prior to Purestroke's last, and mentioned again by Purestroke. Reteeing 3 is always an option. Why wouldn't you just hit 3 off the tee?

Oof. I apologize to you, fourputt, and PureStroke for being a retard (no offense to retards.)

That is an option, and is indeed the best option in this case.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Oof. I apologize to you, fourputt, and PureStroke for being a retard (no offense to retards.)

That is an option, and is indeed the best option in this case.

All is well, I was just starting to wonder if maybe I was the retard (well, worse than I already know myself to be) and you didn't want to point it out. Even made me go to the site to confirm, thinking that maybe I had missed something a while back and had been playing wrong all these years. :thumbs up:

 

[Eracer]

I have learned much in this thread, and plan to win $20.00 off someone in a bet because of it (like I did off the guy who bet me that you couldn't tend the flagstick when the ball was off the fringe.)

 

[Fourputt]

I have learned much in this thread, and plan to win $20.00 off someone in a bet because of it (like I did off the guy who bet me that you couldn't tend the flagstick when the ball was off the fringe.)

One thing that you learn if you play long enough... there are more misconceptions about the rules of golf than any other game or sport I know of. Too much gets passed on by word of mouth, usually by someone who also learned it that way, and if someone speaks like he knows what he's talking about, he'll usually be believed, regardless of his true credentials. I carry a rule book in my bag at all times just for those who were told this or that by a good buddy, were told wrong, but just won't believe it without seeing it in print. I only worry about correcting another player if they ask or if we are in a competition of some sort. I'm not the type who preaches the rules at everyone he plays with, but I do try to help out when I feel that it will be received well.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

I carry a rule book in my bag at all times just for those who were told this or that by a good buddy, were told wrong, but just won't believe it without seeing it in print. I only worry about correcting another player if they ask or if we are in a competition of some sort. I'm not the type who preaches the rules at everyone he plays with, but I do try to help out when I feel that it will be received well.

This is exactly how I am. I have a rule book in my bag, and have since the second year I played, because I regularly play in competitions. In many cases with people who just have knowledge of the rules based on what they have heard or just use their best guess. I only mention anything regarding the rules if someone asks, or if it becomes apparent they do not know the rules and are about to do something in competition where they would cost me, or more likely cost them. Kinda funny because it is likely the latter because I also rarely watch my opponents closely outside of keeping track of visible strokes in matchplay.

I do not even profess to know all the rules, but have read the book on several occasions, and likely do not say anything if anyone asks unless I am particularly positive. I would say 90% of the times I have ever said anything about rules on the course is when someone is obviously about to penalize themselves in a situation where they do not need. The most common likely being when they are preparing to retee when their ball is in a hazard, or when I hit OB and they ask why I don't just drop by the stakes. OB is one of the few that I ever find myself enforcing if my opponent mistakenly tries to treat it as a lateral.

Another common on our course is they have alot of designated drop areas for use outside of the bigger competitions, and when I am playing with someone less familiar with the course I make sure to point it out when they try and play behind a given hazard that has a drop area on the other side.

When I play friendly rounds, I never say a word unless someone asks, and while I see people stomp on the rules on a regular basis, it really means nothing to me. I will even do the same on occasion on friendly rounds out of convenience or respect to others. Kinda like the initial topic. If I find my ball unplayable in bounds after hitting a provisional, I will be playing the provisional on a friendly round. Just as if I hit my ball where it clearly seemed playable, and do not find it for whatever reason, it just became a lateral out of respect to the people I play with. Or the most common this time of the year, we strictly enforce the leaf rule in our area on friendlys. If any of our group hits into the rough and it is clear the ball is in the rough and not unplayable, it is a FREE drop. Which is always pointed out by the rest of the foursome, so you don't feel bad doing so. We've even on occasion lost balls in the fairway, or ones that barely rolled off the green on odd times of the day

 

[PureStroke]

You play again from the tee. Sometimes that is the only possibility.

The same rule applies (Rule 28) if you hit deep into the woods and find your ball unplayable. There may be no way to drop back along a line from the hole through your ball, and it would take 5 or 6 2 clublength drops (with a one stroke penalty each time) to get to a spot where you have a shot to escape. In such a case you would also return to the previous spot and play under penalty of stroke and distance.

BTW Pureslice, Rule 20-1 has nothing to do with this situation. As long as he proceeds correctly under Rule 28, there is nothing about Rule 20 that applies unless he doesn't know how to drop a ball.

LMFAO......PURESLICE LOL i LIKE THAT NIK NAME. If only I could miss to the right . PureHook would be a better one. If I miss its deffinetly going left(with a members bounce off the top of the tree).

 

[Fourputt]

LMFAO......PURESLICE LOL i LIKE THAT NIK NAME. If only I could miss to the right . PureHook would be a better one. If I miss its deffinetly going left(with a members bounce off the top of the tree).

I must have been half asleep when I wrote that. I just leaving for the course and was in a hurry.... that's my story. I could only wish for your actual forum name.... PureStroke.... now that's the impossible dream...