Rules question

[cabinessence]

Not sure I understand.

Since both casual water and G.I.R. are both listed under the definition of "Abnormal Ground Conditions", doesn't rule 25-1 dealing with dropping outside a bunker cover both situations? If so, then you must take a penalty, even though it is G.I.R.

I see where one can take relief from casual water that is also G.I.R.; but I don't see where it applies to that situation in a bunker.

When a ball is in a bunker, the rules seem to give the player no way around taking a penalty for dropping outside that bunker.

I should have been more specific -- in the case of a bunker filled with water, the tournament organizer can declare the bunker ground under repair AND classify it as through the green. That way you can take a drop outside the bunker without the 1-shot penalty.

Decisions on the Rules of Golf

 

[Eracer]

I should have been more specific -- in the case of a bunker filled with water, the tournament organizer can declare the bunker ground under repair AND classify it as through the green. That way you can take a drop outside the bunker without the 1-shot penalty.

I see. Thanks.

 

[dave.]

But why would they do that? I have never come across that,you have to drop the ball in the bunker even into the shallowest part,OR,take a penalty behind the bunker.I have played with flooded bunkers many times and never come across a nice pro who declares GUR,the bastards never bother.

 

[cabinessence]

But why would they do that? I have never come across that,you have to drop the ball in the bunker even into the shallowest part,OR,take a penalty behind the bunker.I have played with flooded bunkers many times and never come across a nice pro who declares GUR,the bastards never bother.

They would do that because they don't want to convert a bunker into a de facto water hazard. IMHO, in the course of normal play a bunker that doesn't have a dry stance should be defined as GUR and through the green and that's how I'd treat it if the situation came up. Most club pros have better things to do than troll the course and put up signs with temporary rules decisions.

 

[dave.]

Not here you can't,if its not marked you drop into the water or take a penalty.In 25 years I've never once found GUR in a bunker filled with casual water.I' not defending it,I agree with you

 

[JEFF4i]

But why would they do that? I have never come across that,you have to drop the ball in the bunker even into the shallowest part,OR,take a penalty behind the bunker.I have played with flooded bunkers many times and never come across a nice pro who declares GUR,the bastards never bother.

The only thing I can think of is that in New Mexico, we rarely see enough water to fill a bunker. So it's a pretty abnormal condition.

Also, the head pro for the city courses here is pretty smart, nice, and practical about situations. Which works out well for circumstances like this.

 

[Stanters]

So then? In my case - no GUR, casual water etc......just lodged under a rock - do I have the option of dropping in the bunker not nearer the hole if I cannot drop within 2 club lengths? Can I find a spot where I can play that is no nearer than where I landed and drop or must I go back to the tee?

I'm still unclear even after all these posts and reading the rules

 

[LyleG]

The course I played on a few years back had their bunkers marked as GIR at least 10 times a year. They just posted a sign in the pro shop that all greenside bunkers are GIR, drop outside bunker, keeping the bunker between you and the hole, no penalty.

 

[Augster]

So then? In my case - no GUR, casual water etc......just lodged under a rock - do I have the option of dropping in the bunker not nearer the hole if I cannot drop within 2 club lengths? Can I find a spot where I can play that is no nearer than where I landed and drop or must I go back to the tee?

I'm still unclear even after all these posts and reading the rules

I reread your original post and this one is sort of sticky. I'll see if I can answer your question...

First off, if it is a ROCK wall, technically these are loose impediments and you are not offered free relief. So your option is to use Rule 28, Ball Unplayable:

(a) Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
(b) Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the holeand the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
(c) Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole. Penalty for Breach of Rule:

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

Since it is an unplayable, and in a bunker, and you can't drop within two clublengths inside the bunker without being closer to the hole, and you can't drop behind the lie, your only option is Option A. Under penalty of one stroke, go back to the place where you shot was previously played and rehit.

BUT, if it is a ROCK WALL that is "man made" and is an obstruction (i.e. the rocks are surrounded by concrete etc.), that is a different animal.

Relief for an Obstruction in Rule 24b is:

(i) Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the immovable obstruction and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

(ii) In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either:
(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker; or
(b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

Since this is now an OBSTRUCTION, if you can find the NEAREST POINT of RELIEF within the bunker, no closer to the hole, you can drop at that point, within 1 clublength free of charge. IF you still don't have a nearest point of relief in the bunker, AND you can't drop behind the obstruction outside the bunker under penalty of one stroke, THEN you just aren't able to take relief from the obstruction.

You would then declare your ball unplayable, and under penalty of one stroke, go back to the spot you previously hit from.

So to answer your questions, if the wall is an obstruction, YES you can drop within the bunker, no nearer the hole at your nearest point of relief regardless of how far that is from the original lie. The nearest point of relief is the nearest point of relief. But the drop must be in the bunker.

If the wall is just rocks, and "loose" impediments, then your only option will be to take a stroke penalty and head back to where you previously played.

Good question.