Should I go to the Dave Pelz School?

[Bravo]

The Dave Pelz 1 day school will be here on March 1-5. The cost is $350...

I know he has his detractors, but I really think this would help me.

My short game is extremely inconsistent. I can hit fantastic shots or incredibly lousy ones....and there are many skills I do not have in my bag.

Anybody out there attended a Pelz school??

 

[Silver]

I've never attended it but I've seriously been considering getting the Short Game Bible. I know that when I've watched Pelz's short game Academies on TGC, I've found 99% of what he says to be really helpful.

I have the Jim McLean authored "Idiot's Guide to the Short Game" and read the whole book cover to cover, and don't feel as though I gained that much from it. Perhaps if I spent more time with drills etc from it, but still, I just wasn't "feeling it".

I think there's probably a reason Pelz is one of the most recognized short game teachers and I'd probably jump at the opportunity if I were you. Also, isn't he Mickelson's short game coach? I'd kill to have a short game 10% as good as Mickelson's.

 

[Rockford35]

Fly me down, we'll hit the range with whatever money is left over from the airline ticket.

I've worked so hard on my short game this year it makes me wanna puke thinking about it.

Pelz is a weiner. He's pretty gimmicky as far as I'm concerned. Sure, he has Phil Mickelson as his prized student, but Phil is pretty talented to begin with. I'm pretty sure Lefty knows his stuff, Pelz saw it as a great opportunity to get a big name on board. But I digress....

For 350 bucks, it might be worth it. I dunno, I'm so biased. I think hard work and some instruction from a good pro would help just as much. Lessons are cheap around these parts from CPGA pros who do wonders with people's games. But, you have to meet them half way and put your best foot forward at the range in the meantime.

Pointless post from me, sorry Bravo. I'm not sure if this helps or makes things worse.

R35

 

[The master]

I say you go this guy will help you even though it will probably be one of his assistants teaching you. The short game is twice as imporant as any other part of them game this guy shoudl shave a few strokes of. I would jump at the chance.

Or you could wait until Dean on the raod comes to a place near you, and get free lessons.

 

[Bravo]

Fly me down, we'll hit the range with whatever money is left over from the airline ticket.

I've worked so hard on my short game this year it makes me wanna puke thinking about it.

Pelz is a weiner. He's pretty gimmicky as far as I'm concerned. Sure, he has Phil Mickelson as his prized student, but Phil is pretty talented to begin with. I'm pretty sure Lefty knows his stuff, Pelz saw it as a great opportunity to get a big name on board. But I digress....

For 350 bucks, it might be worth it. I dunno, I'm so biased. I think hard work and some instruction from a good pro would help just as much. Lessons are cheap around these parts from CPGA pros who do wonders with people's games. But, you have to meet them half way and put your best foot forward at the range in the meantime.

Pointless post from me, sorry Bravo. I'm not sure if this helps or makes things worse.

R35

If anything - you made me think about it more carefully...

Yesterday, on those short game shots where I feel I have the skill in my bag - I did superbly.

1) Hit one from 55 yards to within two feet. Full carry shot with my Cleveland 54.

2) Hit one from about 15 yards off the green with a nine iron in bump and runner to about 3 feet.

3) Hit a little chip from right off the green to about 3 feet.

Got up and down (made the putts) every time.

THEN...

1) Needed a flop over a bunker where I had precious little to work with greenwise. I dont have confidence in this shot and skulled way over the green and took a double. I just dont know how to do this well and I know it.

2) The putting was decent. Made a 12 footer for birdie on 1 and made a 15 footer on 17 to save par.

Butt, frankly guys I don't read greens well. I will tell you that 70% of my misses are a result of misreading. Hit it where I want to but I cant figure out where to hit it. We have tough greens - OK - but I have played them for almost 40 years so something has to improve somehow.

My bunker game is inconsistent. Sometimes awesome where I almost hole out shots from greenside bunkers and am able to hit greens from 160 yards away out of fairway bunkers. I usually like getting in fairway bunkers if there is not a lip in the way of my stance or swing.....But I got in two yesterday and could not convert. As soon as I think I have some phase of the game down - I lose it somewhat. Not totally but its like I know about 70% of what to do but not 100%...

Maybe lessons from our pro would help....I don't know. $350 would buy a lot.

 

[Silver]

I know for me, $350 US would buy at least 5 full hours of lessons from a good local pro and I'm considering using the 3.5 hours that I have left purely on short game lessons.

Considering that the short game clinic is 6 hours, it's probably not a bad deal, but if you're confident with your pro...that money might be just as well spent with someone who knows your greens as well as anyone.

It probably really works out to 6 of one...half dozen of the other.

 

[DaveE]

Let me say up front, I don't have a strong opinion of Pelz one way or the other.

I would say if you want to go and the price isn't a hardship then go and have fun. In the long run, if you get one or two really good tips or drills to help your short game you will soon forget all about your $350.00

If there was a magic wedge or putter that could take even one or two strokes off each round we would line up to buy that for the same price.

If you decide to go, be sure to follow up with a report.

 

[Youngun5]

6 hours for 350........ i dunno bravo, someone said it'd be his assistant which is probly true, if he is there, there'll be quite a few people there so not much one on one time, i don't really think too highly of the guy simply because i love my short game and his ideas seem very simple and generalized, i think you might do better getting several sessions from another local pro,
IMHO,

 

[Loop]

After reading a lot of Golf Magazine and Golf Digest (about 6 years of articles), I have the very strong impression that Pelz is a quack.
He talks a lot of statistics, which doesn't really help.
Then things like distance control, by either varying the length of the backswing, or changing clubs without changing the backswing...
Then you see some odd articles on how to make a ball skip over water....
Or a poem on the short game...

There was a show on GC where Pelz made a lesson about reading greens. Needless to say, I didn't learn anything new, and didn't give any advice on actually how to read the green. Worst, he makes statements that average players don't give enough break in breaking putts. Then I must be a tour player since I always see more break then there is...

IMO, taking lessons with that guy won't make you learn anything new.
Or maybe it is that I'm an autodidact, and don't like taking lessons. As Rock, the bottom line is practicing and keep practicing. In the range I can make great shots. But actually playing on the course is different, as sometimes, the mental game can get in the way.

 

[Golfbum]

LESSONS WITH DAVE

I know I would not spend $350 US for lessons with Dave. After 23 years of golf I find the short game is all about feel. Hey if you have golfed a long time you will remember hitting flop shots with a standard PW, we did not have 60 degree wedges back, at least I didn't. I recall having little competitions amongst friends at the golf course, who could hit a ball over an apple tree by the putting green with a PW. Had to get the ball up quick and 20 feet over the tree. Lots of fun, made you work on that aspect of your game.

Go to your course, dump 100 balls beside the putting green and go to work. Hit balls with every lofted iron in your bag. Bump and runs, little chips, long chips, flop shots (although I do not use that shot much, only when required but you have to have it). Work, work, and more work. Like anything else in life it takes effort to improve.

If you still struggle then invest an hour with your local pro.

Don't get me wrong, Pelz has some great ideas on the short game, he has been around a long time. I think he has helped Lefty out a lot in the past year. Pelz was an space engineer at one point in his life I think so it is not like he is stupid. But he is getting richer off his schools and chances are he won't be there to teach you. Spend some cash on your local pro and buy some new wedges with the rest!

Now I have tossed my 2 cents worth into the fray.

 

[Bravo]

Seems like people are not really reading my post.

While I do agree that feel is important in the short game - I am talking about acquiring skills I do not currently have.

It is well known that if you have poor skills in an area of the game and then go to the range, and practice, practice, practice, practice - all you are doing is ingraining deeper a set of bad skills and habits.

If you read my post above - there are areas in my short game that are good right now. I can hit a towering shot over a tall tree from right in front of the green. Got this in my bag.

Good at hitting close from 50-100 yards.

Bump and run. Got it.

Reading greens. Dont have it. And I dont think that after 40 years of play - with a current index of 8.1 - that going out and spending hours of practice practice practice practice on our practice putting green is going to help me learn how to read greens better. The skill of reading greens well is not present.

Extremely delicate flops where you have a very very small landing area that must be executed with precision. Do not have this skill.

My course has a slope of 135. We have several two level greens and one three level. All bunkers are deep faced and we have some that are so deep when you are in them, you cannot see the players standing on the green 20 feet away. In the Fall/Winter - it is not uncommon for the greens to stimp out at 10-11. These factors create a demand for excellent skills out of bunkers and the ability to hit very delicate flops over bunkers that may need to travel 20 feet and then stop on a dime....This is what I am talking about - I a'int got that now...

I need someone to teach me how to do this.

 

[DaveE]

If you can walk away from that class with the knowledge of how to hit the flop and improve your skill at reading greens then go for it. Not to mention, it might just be fun.

You'll be playing golf for many years to come and the price of this class is minimal when stretched out over time.

Plus, if you go we will have a true Dave Pelz expert at ShotTalk and GR. :miz:

 

[Loop]

Extremely delicate flops where you have a very very small landing area that must be executed with precision. Do not have this skill.

You really got a very very good repertoire of shots. But that flop shot is very hard to master. You already know how to flop it. But doing it in a delicate situation is something that even pro's IMO have a hard time to execute, and the distance control is even harder to judge. I know for sure I wouldn't make a flop shot if the conditions aren't there (a no go if there's no grass under the ball).

On reading greens, I'm no expert, but my brother is very good at reading greens. The general idea is that there's two thing: speed and alignment. There's no break at the start of the putt, provided you've given enough speed. As the ball slows down, the ball starts to break. So the ball actually breaks more towards the end....
For my part, I try to visualize the roll.
Here:
http://www.pgaprofessional.com/instruction_articles/reading_greens.html

And here's someone who really knows how to do the plumb bobbing:
http://www.golftipsmag.com/content/pastissues/2001/jun/greenreader.html

Enjoy your new skills

 

[Youngun5]

bravo you once again make good points, ok, lets face it, even with equipment getting better, you arent' getting any younger, your long game is going to slide a little bit but you need to keep your accuracy, you seem to be good from 150 to the green but when these things fail in the course of a round, you will need a great short game to be able to still compete, as far as reading greens you just need to read as much instruction as possble until you find the one tip that just clicks so that you know exactly what to do and can do it every time, most of the shots you describe are some of the most difficult in the game, by all means a fairway bunker shot from 50-100 yards out is easy, from what i've read you have good fundamentals, these shots you talk of are shots that require an emmense amount of practice, i have put in this practice, uncountable hours of bump and runs flops anything you name it, whoever on here said something about a nono for flopping when there's no grass i have practiced that so many times and hit it just as well as when there is grass, you have to be creative, reading greens in my opinion is probably one of the hardest things to learn and teach for that matter, i still think you would get better mileage in going for a local pro

 

[Loop]

whoever on here said something about a nono for flopping when there's no grass i have practiced that so many times and hit it just as well as when there is grass,

I can flop with no grass in practice. I'll NEVER do that in a round though, as it's extremely risky, and I'd be better off with less risky shots. Most of the succesful pros are good statisticians, as they will calculate their risk/reward ratio on any given shot.
But then, if you've succeeded in pulling the no grass flop shot 100% of the times in a round, you're one talented player, which I do not doubt.