Starter Etiquette

[HACKMAN]

Play the back tees, that always scares um off.

 

[295yards]

Good points I must admit after a day to think it over. Probably the biggest factor for me personally was not even the pace of play. It was more the attitude of the kid. I have played with plenty of terrible golfers who were fun to be with regardless of how they played the game. Playing with a spoiled brat who is pouting on every hole and having a miserable time tends to bring me down as well. I definately don't like to play with people who are not having fun. I absolutely must keep myself in an upbeat mood in order to play well. You can suck just have fun while you suck and those around you won't be brought down.

The whole day was a disappointment. My buddy and I play together several times a week (Usually just the two of us) and we always have a good time. Our games and attitudes compliment each other. It sucks to take our game to another course that's over $100 each and have a bad time because of who you get paired with. By the way this course is almost always listed in the "Top 100 Courses You Can Play" list.

About the only thing that salvaged the day for us was betting on the back nine. Even though I lost the bets at least got us back focused on playing the game. I guess there is a lesson to be learned there as well. Betting kind of took our focus off of what was going on around us a bit.

No doubt.
I cannot stand of people I am golfing with, who cannot maintain a fair pace of play or always whine ( or worse; POUT )
I went out to a course and booked for four ( I recommend this ) even though it'd only be my wife and I and insisted to the last minute our other two were just running late.
Anyway, a guy by himself asked to join up with us around the 12th hole. He started off funny with all his whinning that both my wife and I would be laughing the whole time he'd complain how crappy he was until he turned on my wife and said that he was serious and he was so frustrated he wanted to quit golf altogether.
He whined a few more times after a few bad shots and I told him to kindly run along, that I didn't care to listen to it anymore.

 

[SiberianDVM]

I think expecting a starter at ANY public course, except maybe St. Andrews, to pair you with golfers of comparable ability, equal speed, and compatible personality, is asking a bit much. Heck, most of the public courses around here don't even have marshalls or starters anymore, just someone inside who takes your money and waves vaguely towards the location of the first tee box. After that, it's up to the players to match up and fight their way towards the front of the line.

Does anyone else remember those thingies public courses used to have at the first tee, where a player would drop his marked golf ball in the top, and when it reached the bottom it was his turn to tee off?

I've only played a couple of private courses. To say things were different is quite an understatement. I even saw the head pro drive out on the course with a cart for a member who got tired walking after 7 holes & load up his bag for him.

I much prefer the precision and time management of a high end resort course, where they make their money getting 4somes around in under 5 hours. But, I can't afford to pay $400 for every round of golf

 

[Clugnut]

I don't think it is up to the starter, but rather you and the people you have been paired with. I cannot stand people who disrespect my time. My time is my life. I have a family, and I have a business. I play golf because I love the game, not to dick around for 7 hours outside. So, if it were me, I would have respectfully moved ahead. If I was the father of the "others", I would have offered your group the option of moving along, right before I dragged my brat into the woods for a lesson. You have every right to expect to enjoy your $100 round, but sometimes you have to make it happen on your own.

 

[MyBluC4]

Great Topic. I play a lot of resort courses and this happens from time to time. Usually, I'm very fortunate to be paired with decent players and terrific personalities. But when it's a special course, an expensive course, a special experience course...I usually ask the starter if he knows the hook ups. I explain that I'm a low handicap and have really looked forward to playing his track. This doesn't get me out of high handicap partners necessarily, but does usually get me out of playing with senior couples. I once got stuck playing with honeymooners on Pinehurst #2. He was OK, she played once before and didn't want to pick her ball up. Don't know how she was allowed on their U.S. Open track in the first place (oh yea, they paid the insane greens fee). I wanted to murder the starter, the husband, and after the first 5 holes, myself. Miserable experience and total disappointment.
At top notch, top priced tracks I would like to see starters at least inquire about handicaps or experience and try to make judgement calls as logically as possible. In this way, better players don't need to get frustrated, and more importantly, higher handicappers don't need to feel intimidated, self conscious or unhappy.
I know this solution may sound snobbish, but I don't think anyone, at any level of play wants to be uncomfortable with playing partners, especially ones they don't know.

 

[SiberianDVM]

Great Topic. I play a lot of resort courses and this happens from time to time. .... I once got stuck playing with honeymooners on Pinehurst #2. He was OK, she played once before and didn't want to pick her ball up.

Whenever I play a high end resort course, I always try to get a caddie. To them, time is money, and they usually will keep things moving, and if there is a problem, they know who to call to sort it out.

 

[FATC1TY]

No doubt.
I cannot stand of people I am golfing with, who cannot maintain a fair pace of play or always whine ( or worse; POUT )
I went out to a course and booked for four ( I recommend this ) even though it'd only be my wife and I and insisted to the last minute our other two were just running late.
Anyway, a guy by himself asked to join up with us around the 12th hole. He started off funny with all his whinning that both my wife and I would be laughing the whole time he'd complain how crappy he was until he turned on my wife and said that he was serious and he was so frustrated he wanted to quit golf altogether.
He whined a few more times after a few bad shots and I told him to kindly run along, that I didn't care to listen to it anymore.

So your the reason courses want CC numbers when you book a time, to keep people from backing out and wasting spots on the tee sheets.

You rag on fisher for thinking pairing people by ability is wrong, yet you "recommend" that people book the entire 4-some slot of a tee time, and then lie to avoid having to be paired with someone. Thats more wrong than ANYTHING I see here. Your the reason people can't play on the time they want because you lie about your situation.

Man up next time and just tell them you want to play as a twosome, or play later in the day when no one is out if your scared of the crazies getting paired with you.

 

[FATC1TY]

Great Topic. I play a lot of resort courses and this happens from time to time. Usually, I'm very fortunate to be paired with decent players and terrific personalities. But when it's a special course, an expensive course, a special experience course...I usually ask the starter if he knows the hook ups. I explain that I'm a low handicap and have really looked forward to playing his track. This doesn't get me out of high handicap partners necessarily, but does usually get me out of playing with senior couples. I once got stuck playing with honeymooners on Pinehurst #2. He was OK, she played once before and didn't want to pick her ball up. Don't know how she was allowed on their U.S. Open track in the first place (oh yea, they paid the insane greens fee). I wanted to murder the starter, the husband, and after the first 5 holes, myself. Miserable experience and total disappointment.
At top notch, top priced tracks I would like to see starters at least inquire about handicaps or experience and try to make judgement calls as logically as possible. In this way, better players don't need to get frustrated, and more importantly, higher handicappers don't need to feel intimidated, self conscious or unhappy.
I know this solution may sound snobbish, but I don't think anyone, at any level of play wants to be uncomfortable with playing partners, especially ones they don't know.

I agree with this. I go to NC to play every summer on a beautiful RTJ track. I'm normally alone, and expect that I'll get paired with someone with an opening, and I don't mind. The only time I do mind, is when I'm forced into a 3-some of folks that are together. Thats awkward, but has never been bad.

When I go up there, I usually get paired, and in the past, I've always had guys ask of my ability, and I ask likewise. The 1st tee doesn't say much, but if a guy says he's low double, or single, I know he's atleast good and will have a good chance to keep pace. I don't mind playing with a 20-cap, hell, I'm a 12, so I'm not much better, but I can play 18 in a cart in and under 3 hours with no problem.

I played with a guy who was a single, and didn't play like a single to me. He was fast though, and even though he played like shit, he was good company, and was enjoyable.

The only time I hate being paired is with some jackass, who is slow. That, and I hate looking for other peoples balls. I'm just not interested in taking a time out to wade through the woods and creeks to find your damn ball when mines in the fairway, and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to help me to look if I didn't know you.

 

[295yards]

So your the reason courses want CC numbers when you book a time, to keep people from backing out and wasting spots on the tee sheets.

You rag on fisher for thinking pairing people by ability is wrong, yet you "recommend" that people book the entire 4-some slot of a tee time, and then lie to avoid having to be paired with someone. Thats more wrong than ANYTHING I see here. Your the reason people can't play on the time they want because you lie about your situation.

Man up next time and just tell them you want to play as a twosome, or play later in the day when no one is out if your scared of the crazies getting paired with you.

I ragged on him for wanting to be paired up with low cappers only. It's a snotty attitude that does not belong on the course, IMO.

But, I don't think he even meant it that way FWIW.

I remember starting out and having a hard time breaking 100. I could not hit driver straight for the life of me and if I got paired up with guys who could shoot mid 80's they acted like I was a nuisance if I missed the fairway or hit it O.B.

It was like OMG he hit it OB again. Big deal man, why should I feel bad about that! I never spend time for looking for a lost cause and I was always ready to hit when it was my turn.

I've also golfed with really good golfers who would appreciate my company and offered encouragement along the way to me wanting to get better.

Now that I am better I will never discourage someone wanting to get better. Pace of play is different! and so is a crap ass attitude. Pick it up and shut it up, or I move along. TUFF!

As far as booking for groups of foursomes, it is a strategy I feel necessary these days to actually enjoy a round.

Courses around here are booking groups of 4 every 8mins the whole day long. Rounds are sometimes 7 hours long, so I don't feel for the courses.

I only do this when I golf with the wife. She wants me to turn down groups if they ask to join up along the way but I started to tell her she has to tell them. I can golf with anyone!

I find if we get the first few intimidating holes out of the way the day goes a little smoother.

Happy wife. Happy life.

I originally debating this in the past wether it was ethical or not and concluded that the course does not care about me or my wife so I do it, and I don't feel bad at all.

I've even debated calling the courses that are always congested and book several groups of fours intermittently just so when I step on the course I know i'll be able to get out of their in 4 1/2hrs.

Trust me. It sounds unethical, I know. But what about showing up for your tee time and waiting on the box with four or more groups lined up and getting out almost an hour late followed by waiting 15mins. between shots?

 

[295yards]

I agree with this. I go to NC to play every summer on a beautiful RTJ track. I'm normally alone, and expect that I'll get paired with someone with an opening, and I don't mind. The only time I do mind, is when I'm forced into a 3-some of folks that are together. Thats awkward, but has never been bad.

When I go up there, I usually get paired, and in the past, I've always had guys ask of my ability, and I ask likewise. The 1st tee doesn't say much, but if a guy says he's low double, or single, I know he's atleast good and will have a good chance to keep pace. I don't mind playing with a 20-cap, hell, I'm a 12, so I'm not much better, but I can play 18 in a cart in and under 3 hours with no problem.

I played with a guy who was a single, and didn't play like a single to me. He was fast though, and even though he played like shit, he was good company, and was enjoyable.

The only time I hate being paired is with some jackass, who is slow. That, and I hate looking for other peoples balls. I'm just not interested in taking a time out to wade through the woods and creeks to find your damn ball when mines in the fairway, and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to help me to look if I didn't know you.

Sometimes a man needs to find his own balls : )

If he can't find them by himself its probably because their in his wifes purse.

 

[anonymous golfaholic]

Why not book a tee time a couple weeks in advance and get the earliest time available? That's what we do, the last 3 times I played we were the 1st group out. I know it doesn't always work that way but I have found that the earliest groups are generally faster. Of course, we play 36 holes so we are in it for the long run anyway, but we fly through the 1st 18.

 

[295yards]

Definitely how I prefer my rounds on the weekend, sipping coffee and tracking threw the dewey mist, but unfortunately I can't always get out that early and I have never to this date booked other groupings.

It is slightly unethical but so is booking groups of 4 8mins apart the whole day and telling people to hit the road when the pull in after 9 nine holes and 3 1/2 hrs later.

Until they have the holding power to make people reserve spots on credit cards anything is truly fair, IMO.

 

[295yards]

Oh?
And around here you can only book 7 days in advance and it's pretty competitive to get that early tee time, especially when everyone whos a member knows someone in the pro shop.

 

[Fourputt]

My buddy and I went to an upscale public course yesterday. The course was relatively slow. We booked our tee time as a two some. We arrived early to warm up. We were told we would be paired up with another twosome.

My buddy is a 3 handicap and I am an 8.

The father and son we got paired up with were horrible. The teenaged son was a highschool golfer with a terrible attitude. Pouting after every bad shot.....letting go of his club in his finish after yet another bad swing. The father had one of those Barkley like swings that you are afraid to even watch for fear it might rub off on you. These two were painfully slow players.

My buddy and I got off to good starts but the pace of play was really getting to us by the 5th hole. We both began playing poorly thru the middle of the round. We nearly quit at the turn. We debated ditching these two at the turn but decided that would be in poor taste.

Buddy manages a 1-under on the back 9 and finishes with a 79. I steadily go downhill and shoot an 87.

Question is does the starter have an obligation if he is going to pair you up with others to make sure there is some parity amongst the players? Would it be in bad taste to tell the starter that we are low handicap players who prefer fast play and that we would appreciate playing by ourselves or with others with reasonable abilities?

In a word, no. I work as a starter and most of the time I simply don't have a choice. For one thing, I rarely know the skill level of the players I'm pairing. The pairing usually happens well ahead of the tee time, often several days ahead. In that case, all I have to work with is the tee sheet that's printed out that morning, plus any additions from day of play call-ins or walk-ons. An add on twosome just gets grouped with whatever other single or twosome which might be on the tee sheet near the time requested by the add ons. The tee sheet doesn't reflect handicaps, nor do I know most players on the sheet by name, so I have no data to fulfill such a request even if it's made.

As a 13 handicap I've been paired with professionals who have played Tour stops, with 30+ beginners, and everything in between. When you play a public access course you accept whatever is handed to you.

Pace of play is another issue entirely. There is NO excuse for dawdling, no matter how poorly one is playing. In my opinion, that would be a reasonable excuse for playing on ahead of them.

 

[Fourputt]

As far as booking for groups of foursomes, it is a strategy I feel necessary these days to actually enjoy a round.

Courses around here are booking groups of 4 every 8mins the whole day long. Rounds are sometimes 7 hours long, so I don't feel for the courses.

I only do this when I golf with the wife. She wants me to turn down groups if they ask to join up along the way but I started to tell her she has to tell them. I can golf with anyone!

I find if we get the first few intimidating holes out of the way the day goes a little smoother.

Happy wife. Happy life.

I originally debating this in the past wether it was ethical or not and concluded that the course does not care about me or my wife so I do it, and I don't feel bad at all.

I've even debated calling the courses that are always congested and book several groups of fours intermittently just so when I step on the course I know i'll be able to get out of their in 4 1/2hrs.

Trust me. It sounds unethical, I know. But what about showing up for your tee time and waiting on the box with four or more groups lined up and getting out almost an hour late followed by waiting 15mins. between shots?

It's not just unethical. You are a thief. Plain and simple. Nothing more to add.