Swing Mechanics and Power

[ezra76]

I think what he means is that his release is late and he probably ends up hitting the club more on the down motion rather than on the up. Or perhaps, less of an upswing than the average person. It's almost as though you're playing the ball further back in your stance due to the late release.

Very much so. I was looking at a swing sequence of Charles Howell III. That is similar to how I feel at impact with a driver or wood swing. I am not sure how I look but I definitely get a low ball flight and a lot of distance.

 

[Eracer]

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[ezra76]

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[Jeff Gallo]

TURN!

I cant believe that in a thread about finding more power there has been no mention of turn. If you make more turn in your backswing you will create more power without swinging harder or even having to try and create extra lag which can be a very confusing swing thought. when i want to squeeze a little extra out of the driver i make my stance very slightly wider (this helps me launch the ball a tad higher) and turn back just slightly short of losing my balance at the top of my backswing the ball is no longer where both my eyes are focused, it has drifted slightly into my periferal vision. from there I try to keep my tempo slow and the lag happens on its own. By using more turn instead of swinging harder you can reduce your tendency to rush at the ball and throw the club.

That said I do believe that distance is as much know-how as it is the strength to create speed. So do work on your impact position, just when it comes to creating more speed instead of trying to make the club accelerate as fast as charles howell's in as short a distance as possible try to employ some simple logic. The harder your muscles work the stiffer they get and nobody has said that a more restricted swing will produce more speed. So instead give the club more space to accelerate by using more turn, this way you can create more speed accelerating slower and therefore allow yourself more control as well.

 

[LongGolf]

I was wondering if you guys have any advice or pointers or drills that will help me hold that precious "angle" a bit longer. I'm talking about not unleashing your swing too early. I guess this would be casting the club.
When I look at frame by frame analysis of pro golfers with their drivers, the club doesn't uncoil until very late in the swing and thus all that power is generated. Like many others, I guess I have a tendency to throw my club at the ball rather than sweep it through. I've hit some great long drives before but I feel like I really have to work for it. Meaning, I have to swing harder, which will generally result in bad form. When I use my irons (usually 7 and up) I feel like I can take a nice smooth swing and I'll usually get some good distance. But when it comes to the driver and low irons, a nice smooth swing doesn't result in much distance.

So, if anyone has anything to share about this, I'd love to hear it. Thanks everyone!

To delay your release, there are three good things you can do. 1) increase the swingweight of your clubs 2) increase your wrist ****ing at the top, 3) increase the strength of your pull down, meaning the force your arms exert on your hands to accelerate the system. You might have to work out for this last one.

And see my thread "New swing learning method ."

 

[Eracer]

To delay your release, there are three good things you can do. 1) increase the swingweight of your clubs 2) increase your wrist ****ing at the top, 3) increase the strength of your pull down, meaning the force your arms exert on your hands to accelerate the system. You might have to work out for this last one.

And see my thread "New swing learning method ."

You mean the one that is just another heapin' helpin' of

:diespam:

 

[ezra76]

Really. Come on man. The guy you quoted hasn't visited this board in over 2 years.

 

[Manavs]

I was wondering if you guys have any advice or pointers or drills that will help me hold that precious "angle" a bit longer. I'm talking about not unleashing your swing too early. I guess this would be casting the club.
When I look at frame by frame analysis of pro golfers with their drivers, the club doesn't uncoil until very late in the swing and thus all that power is generated. Like many others, I guess I have a tendency to throw my club at the ball rather than sweep it through. I've hit some great long drives before but I feel like I really have to work for it. Meaning, I have to swing harder, which will generally result in bad form. When I use my irons (usually 7 and up) I feel like I can take a nice smooth swing and I'll usually get some good distance. But when it comes to the driver and low irons, a nice smooth swing doesn't result in much distance.

So, if anyone has anything to share about this, I'd love to hear it. Thanks everyone!

the precious angle - ahhhh - i;ll leave my answer like this -

take a look outside of traditional failed instruction for one second and look at
every and any other sport that uses a stick or projectile does a pitcher delay his elbow? does a hitter delay the bat? does a javelin thrower rotate the hips and keep the elbow bent? backetball player shooting a free throw?

this subject is near and dear to my heart and ive been studying the precision of the downswing for the past 15 years.

its really simple, if one is not getting the look they want, obviously they're not doing the downswing correctly. but by all means dont try to do it "later" your just going to run out of time. just do it in the correct direction.

 

[twofast2s]

lot of good comments here.

i constantly look at different types of swings, from mine to pga pros, to seek better swing.

for me, the lag comes from soft wrist/arm w/ good pivot and weight transfer (which have to come from turning or pivoting around my front leg).

my swing changed throughout this year, and at least the swing speed has been increasing and my swing has been more stable and compact (holding my stance and finish).

you can really creat some lag if you think of your arm and club as a whip. almost like slinging your arm/club

 

[Manavs]

lot of good comments here.

i constantly look at different types of swings, from mine to pga pros, to seek better swing.

for me, the lag comes from soft wrist/arm w/ good pivot and weight transfer (which have to come from turning or pivoting around my front leg).

my swing changed throughout this year, and at least the swing speed has been increasing and my swing has been more stable and compact (holding my stance and finish).

you can really creat some lag if you think of your arm and club as a whip. almost like slinging your arm/club

lag comes in many different ways and yes lag can be faked - the BEST lag comes from a fierce extension against the shaft. its newtons law.

from the start of ones downswing, the harder the extension - the more the lag (given the correct direction of the extension). the object at rest in this example is the clubhead. (its actually going in the opposite direction with momentum!!!!) - enter the extension/thrust of the downswing, something has to give - creating the lag.

any lack of lag in a golfswing is almost always because of the player intending to get the clubhead into the air thinking it will get the ball into the air.

quite frankly they are 2 completely directions the ball has to go up and forward, the clubhead has to go down and out.

 

[twofast2s]

lag comes in many different ways and yes lag can be faked - the BEST lag comes from a fierce extension against the shaft. its newtons law.

from the start of ones downswing, the harder the extension - the more the lag (given the correct direction of the extension). the object at rest in this example is the clubhead. (its actually going in the opposite direction with momentum!!!!) - enter the extension/thrust of the downswing, something has to give - creating the lag.

any lack of lag in a golfswing is almost always because of the player intending to get the clubhead into the air thinking it will get the ball into the air.

quite frankly they are 2 completely directions the ball has to go up and forward, the clubhead has to go down and out.

true, but it's also because they also try to hit it hard. for most of us, when we try to swing hard, our upper body takes over more, usually coming OTT with the wrist releasing early. but if you swing w/ your body, it's easier to time your swing and come from inside. this can be done w/ hard extension against the shaft, but your wrist has to be still supple to create more lag than if you were to actively create lag.

also w/o correct pivot, you won't have clean contact w/ the ball and the lag that you created doesn't really matter anymore.

i don't know if i'm playing w/ better players or not.. but i don't see many players trying to scoop up the ball into the air.

i know i hit down... well sometimes shoveling.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

Compare a body-led punch to flicking someone in the head with your wrist.

Knock-out punches are hips, shoulders, then hand. Oftentimes they work in unison, but it's a matter of physics.

Your arms and hands can only move so fast. But if the hips are moving at X speed, and the shoulders are moving at Y speed, the Z speed of your hands, relative to the world around you, is actually Z + X + Y. Here's an analogy-

Imagine you can throw a baseball at 50mph. Now imagine you can do that while you're riding a bicycle 20mph. Now you can get that baseball going 50+20mph. Now imagine you're riding that bicycle 20mph forward on the top of a train that is going 70mph. Now the speed of that baseball is 50+20+70.

Manavs is right about the momentum and inertia. As long as you keep your wrists quiet, the sudden, abrupt, and exponentially accelerating move of the downswing will cause a delay in the movement of the clubhead, because the clubhead is suspended out in space by only the shaft. The force exerted by the body has to travel through the shaft from the grip, and since steel (or graphite moreso) is slightly flexible, and because you allow your wrists to be soft and not rigid, you can create a massive "lag" angle.

Think of having a rope, or phone cord, or anything on the ground, and jerking one end up and down. The energy travels through the length of the rope, but it takes a slight amount of time. Adding in the lever of the wrists, in the golf swing, allows for even more power delay.

The arms and body cannot keep up that acceleration, which is why the clubhead eventually, and naturally, "releases" all that stored up energy. Getting this right is the difference between hitting a 6 iron 160 yards, and 185 yards.

 

[dave.]

Lag is simply a by product of applying power correctly, its meaningless on its own. Time your swing and apply 100% power you have available, then thats all that matters.

 

[Manavs]

true, but it's also because they also try to hit it hard. for most of us, when we try to swing hard, our upper body takes over more, usually coming OTT with the wrist releasing early. but if you swing w/ your body, it's easier to time your swing and come from inside. this can be done w/ hard extension against the shaft, but your wrist has to be still supple to create more lag than if you were to actively create lag.

also w/o correct pivot, you won't have clean contact w/ the ball and the lag that you created doesn't really matter anymore.

i don't know if i'm playing w/ better players or not.. but i don't see many players trying to scoop up the ball into the air.

i know i hit down... well sometimes shoveling.

Twofast2s

Hitting hard has nothing to do with the direction one is hitting in, and what i mean by that is, imagine your driving a car that has loose wheel lugs. the car may go straight at a slow speed but at a high speed it will fall apart. would adding speed REALLY be the problem here? no, it would be the lack of secured wheels. same thing with the golf swing. if your downswing is not 100% on the correct direction, you are stuck playing at one swing speed, cause it can be faked, as soon as you amp up or slow down the problem amplifies and shows itself. a misdiagnosis is you swung too hard.

lets keep it simple - swinging over the top, left wrist breakdown, faulty pivot, etc, can all be fixed by correcting the direction of the downswing.

ps - fyi of the 1400+ golf lessons i gave from march 98 to march 99, every swing was recorded on video - there was only 3 people that had a downward striking impact - 2 of them were professionals and another was the anomalie amatuer - we kept track.

 

[Manavs]

Lag is simply a by product of applying power correctly, its meaningless on its own.

HALLELUJAH and Amen!