The Great Gun Debate

[eclark53520]

I now realise that you're too blinkered in your views to even consider change, even change that the rest of the world knows would be for the better. This is highlighted by the use of the sentence "regardless of the facts". What else is worth considering more than facts and evidence? Tradition and stubbornness?

Using the "guns are out there already so determined idiots will always get hold of one when they want " argument doesn't cut it either because you're not thinking about the long term gain of banning guns, for the sake of shock value you are only thinking what it could possibly be like immediately after a ban. Is it not logical that reduced access to guns reduces gun related crimes?

The long term gain of banning guns is an oppressive government. Your ok with being a subject, Im not. That's why you don't live here.

I have a right to protect my family. Unless you can show me a country with zero crime, which you can't, i won't be giving up my means to protect them.

If Im 'blinkered' for wanting to live free and protect my family, Im perfectly fine with that.

 

[BigJim13]

Yes, because when a couple teens get grounded, every citizen in the states gets grounded right? when one person is arrested for drunk driving everyone gets their license revoked? No as I've been saying you punish the one who was misbehaving. We don't blame the alcohol, we don't blame the car, blame and punish the person. Why is this any different? Because people have been brainwashed into believing guns are the problem.

We are all punished for other drunk drivers, the legal BAC is set for pretty much one or two beers. Have a drink at the bar and get caught driving home, pretty clear what happens.

Ban guns and when a crazy does this I can't go out and do the same thing. It's time to get extreme, this let everyone own whatever they want clearly isn't working.

I was the guy that was middle of the road prior to this latest shooting. We keep getting told "by our oppressive government" after every shooting that now is not the time for a fight, we'll guess what? This time is different, it was a school FULL OF CHILDREN that a person went in with legally obtained weapons and killed 20 children. He had 32 shots so didn't even have to reload. If now is not the time for change, then when?

 

[eclark53520]

We are all punished for other drunk drivers, the legal BAC is set for pretty much one or two beers. Have a drink at the bar and get caught driving home, pretty clear what happens.

Ban guns and when a crazy does this I can't go out and do the same thing. It's time to get extreme, this let everyone own whatever they want clearly isn't working.

I was the guy that was middle of the road prior to this latest shooting. We keep getting told "by our oppressive government" after every shooting that now is not the time for a fight, we'll guess what? This time is different, it was a school FULL OF CHILDREN that a person went in with legally obtained weapons and killed 20 children. He had 32 shots so didn't even have to reload. If now is not the time for change, then when?

Explain to me the process legally obtain a weapon. Because from what Im hearing you don't know the process.

 

[BigJim13]

Explain to me the process legally obtain a weapon. Because from what Im hearing you don't know the process.

I do not know the process but the gun he had was registered to his mother and owned by his mother. Had she not been able to own that gun, those kids would be alive today.

And why did she own that gun? It was one of the safest places in the country?

 

[eclark53520]

I do not know the process but the gun he had was registered to his mother and owned by his mother. Had she not been able to own that gun, those kids would be alive today.

And why did she own that gun? It was one of the safest places in the country?

So he didn't legally obtain that weapon. Im fairly sure theft is still illegal.

You should educate yourself on a subject you feel so strongly about. You will see that guns are regulated more than driving drunk and alcohol general. Last I checked, drunk driving was still killing lots of. innocent people per year.

 

[EnglishGolfer]

How tragic will an action have to be to get you 2 to consider that there are better options? You Go on about these imaginary home invaders that you need to protect your kids from, but what if it was your kids' school? Your gun at home would be useless, but the gun in the hand of the psychopath did exactly what he wanted it to do.

Innocent people are dying all too often, don't you think it's time for a change?

 

[EnglishGolfer]

So he didn't legally obtain that weapon. Im fairly sure theft is still illegal.

You should educate yourself on a subject you feel so strongly about. You will see that guns are regulated more than driving drunk and alcohol general. Last I checked, drunk driving was still killing lots of. innocent people per year.

That's the point! The regulation you speak of is clearly an inadequate measure. Guns shouldn't be in the hands of the public, they're to emotional, irrational and unstable generally speaking to be responsible for something that is designed to take life. That's also why bringing car crash deaths in as a comparison is fundamentally flawed, because a cars primary role is transportation, not to kill.

 

[BigJim13]

So he didn't legally obtain that weapon. Im fairly sure theft is still illegal.

You should educate yourself on a subject you feel so strongly about. You will see that guns are regulated more than driving drunk and alcohol general. Last I checked, drunk driving was still killing lots of. innocent people per year.

It was owned legally by his mother, and yes he stole it, but it was legally owned in his household which made it easier for him to get.

Don't tell me to educate myself either, I think you have apologized once for being condescending, lets not go there again.

If his mother was unable to own a Glock and a Sig Suaer, one with a 15 shot clip and the other with a 17 shot clip (who needs that?) than those kids would be alive today.

I know you don't want to admit that, but that's the reality of this situation.

 

[eclark53520]

How tragic will an action have to be to get you 2 to consider that there are better options? You Go on about these imaginary home invaders that you need to protect your kids from, but what if it was your kids' school? Your gun at home would be useless, but the gun in the hand of the psychopath did exactly what he wanted it to do.

Innocent people are dying all too often, don't you think it's time for a change?

Yeah, it is time for a change. Its time for parents to start teaching respect. Time for them to quit letting the tv teach them life lessons and take their kids outside and teach them how to work and be an outstanding member of society. Most of these kids never see their parents and when they do their parents are so involved in their own lives they can't be bothered with raising their children.

School is looked at like cheap child care in this country. Kid gets in trouble, teaches calls the parent and the parent gets mad at the teach for attempting to discipline her angel. There's no responsibility in the lives of these kids. No consequences, no structure, no parenting.

Its disgusting.

Yes there is a huge need for a change.

 

[EnglishGolfer]

You're talking nonsense now. How do you propose to do any of what you said? It's impossible. Just give up the guns, it's simple.

 

[nututhugame]

How tragic will an action have to be to get you 2 to consider that there are better options? You Go on about these imaginary home invaders that you need to protect your kids from, but what if it was your kids' school? Your gun at home would be useless, but the gun in the hand of the psychopath did exactly what he wanted it to do.

Innocent people are dying all too often, don't you think it's time for a change?

I do think it's time for change. I think that all the people who let their kids play walk around and kill people games all day so they wont be bothered with them, need to spend some time with their kids and teach them right from wrong. I think respect for life needs to become a value again. Respect for peoples property and well being needs to be taught as a value again. Parents need to recognize when their kid should not have access to a weapon and take the appropriate measures to ensure they don't via gun safe's and trigger locks. Eric Harris had a weapons cache' in his room and his parents had no clue? WTF? I think parents should pay attention to what their kids are listening to and when they find their kids listening to music that glorifies gun violence and drug sales they need to step in and teach their kids that that is bull$hit and they will not have it. Culture changes. People to start giving a feck. That's the change we need.

 

[nututhugame]

You're talking nonsense now. How do you propose to do any of what you said? It's impossible. Just give up the guns, it's simple.

Why do you insist that taking guns is simple yet being a decent member of society and raising your kids in the same fashion is impossible? You're smoking something if you think that "just giving up the guns" is even possible here.

 

[EnglishGolfer]

Kids being cheeky and raised poorly is a worldwide issue, guns being used to kill children and other innocents is what we are discussing. Stop trying to avoid the obvious solution

 

[nututhugame]

Kids being cheeky and raised poorly is a worldwide issue, guns being used to kill children and other innocents is what we are discussing. Stop trying to avoid the obvious solution

Guns do not shoot themselves. People are the issue. Actually, what we are discussing is to ban or not to ban guns. You are using our tragedy to try to trigger emotion and further your "solution". How do you propose to do any of what you're saying? Do you live here? Have you been here? Do you really have a clue about our society?

 

[BigJim13]

I would propose a ban on automatic, semi automatic weapons and handguns. The list would include any rifle or shotgun that would fire repeatedly simply by pulling the trigger. So, a 30-06 that has a 10 shot clip that is semi automatic is now illegal. A bolt/lever action hunting rifle would not be banned. Any weapon with more than a 5 shot capacity, banned. If you can't kill a deer with 5 shots, you don't belong in the woods.