The LIV (Saudi Tour) Thread

[IrishGolfer]

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.

I’ve always said that this would resolve itself. Its not there yet, this news has rocked the golfing world, but I can see it settling and in a few years’ time it will be looked back upon as a blip.

Lets face it, the game is in decline. It needs an injection of new ideas to appeal to younger players. Team events, shortened games, mixed events. It riles the traditionalists, but it is necessary for the game to grow. Yes, we will still have the majors, and it should attract the best players. Exclusion and rival tours don’t work, when players are excluded.

For me the money issue can be played out in so many ways. The PGA Tour and DP World Tour has been backed by slightly shady money over the years. You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to find the links. LIV is a passing ship. The money will move on over time to another LIV.

By the way, I was never a LIV fan, never watched a LIV event. But I did say that a breakaway tour was inevitable and I’ve watched from the sidelines. I’ve watched DP world Tour events in Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa, over the years and I've never questioned the growth.

I’m not sure exactly how it will all turn out, who does? Yes, money has influenced it all. But it does in most sports and it is an inevitability. My only real worry is developing the game at the grass roots. The governing bodies need to continue to invest in programs for kids, minorities etc.

What I do know is that when I sit down to watch Majors, it will hopefully have the best players in the world playing and out of it will emerge champions. How they are compensated, what is their moral compass? I’m not really sure that bothers me. There will continue to be good guys, dicks and douche bags. There will be rivalry, on and off the course.

 

[MCDavis]

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.

I’ve always said that this would resolve itself. Its not there yet, this news has rocked the golfing world, but I can see it settling and in a few years’ time it will be looked back upon as a blip.

Lets face it, the game is in decline. It needs an injection of new ideas to appeal to younger players. Team events, shortened games, mixed events. It riles the traditionalists, but it is necessary for the game to grow. Yes, we will still have the majors, and it should attract the best players. Exclusion and rival tours don’t work, when players are excluded.

For me the money issue can be played out in so many ways. The PGA Tour and DP World Tour has been backed by slightly shady money over the years. You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to find the links. LIV is a passing ship. The money will move on over time to another LIV.

By the way, I was never a LIV fan, never watched a LIV event. But I did say that a breakaway tour was inevitable and I’ve watched from the sidelines. I’ve watched DP world Tour events in Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa, over the years and I've never questioned the growth.

I’m not sure exactly how it will all turn out, who does? Yes, money has influenced it all. But it does in most sports and it is an inevitability. My only real worry is developing the game at the grass roots. The governing bodies need to continue to invest in programs for kids, minorities etc.

What I do know is that when I sit down to watch Majors, it will hopefully have the best players in the world playing and out of it will emerge champions. How they are compensated, what is their moral compass? I’m not really sure that bothers me. There will continue to be good guys, dicks and douche bags. There will be rivalry, on and off the course.

Well said, especially the last paragraph. I don't watch golf because of the sponsors, the tour, or any 1 player. I watch to see good golf at a level I will never achieve. That's what does it for me.

And a friendly repeat of a previous statement of mine: those of you who are up in arms about where the money is coming from: how many years did you watch The Masters while they wouldn't allow black members nor female members?

 

[ualtim]

Saw Rory’s press conference from this morning, he seems way more comfortable with the whole situation than I expected considering his remarks over the past year. Either he has a great PR manager or has somehow has been/will be compensated for his year long crusade against LIV.

Brandel Chamblee. He is probably a couple more released details from completely losing it.

Steven A. Smith and the Mad Dog hit the nail on the head this morning on ESPN.

 

[TEA Time]

Monahan says the players that didn't jump ship and lost out on all that money will be compensated.

 

[ualtim]

Monahan says the players that didn't jump ship and lost out on all that money will be compensated.

I was promised things in a merger/buyout. Never happed. Took lawyers with legal precedent to save the job I was told I was not going to lose as a result of the merger. Still have the letter from the meeting where I was told I was not going to have a job in 6 months.

A lot of these nice sound bites of folks being made whole, tournaments not going away, and current commitments being kept are just that, sound bites. Reality is that things are going to change and a lot of these feel good promises will be forgotten within the next year.

As a golf fan, the only thing I can hope for is that they find a way of getting the best players competing against each other and have good coverage the event. Other than that, there is not a whole lot of difference in my life from whatever they call this thing. It has been a heck of a sideshow for over a year, and we will probably get another 6 months of it as they sort things out, but when it is all said in done I am just hoping for a quality entertainment option.

 

[TEA Time]

As a golf fan, the only thing I can hope for is that they find a way of getting the best players competing against each other and have good coverage the event.

A lot of people are saying this and all I can say is we already had that. Pre-LIV we had that.

 

[ualtim]

A lot of people are saying this and all I can say is we already had that. Pre-LIV we had that.

That ship sailed, unfortunately.

The PGA Tour had the opportunity to allow players to play in both leagues but chose to suspend anyone playing in LIV. I am guessing here, but I believe that eventually they would have lost that court case after dumping millions of dollars into lawyers pockets. That was probably one of the motivators behind coming to an agreement with the PIF sooner rather than later. Might as well deal with the negativity now and retain some control over the Tour while getting an influx of cash than be forced into it down the road by the legal system.

It is a messy situation for sure, but the Tour had the opportunity to prevent it from occurring. By refusing to share some more cash with the players and then penalize those who sought greener pastures, they ended up having to increase the player’s monetary income to what was requested pre-LIV anyway and then face legal scrutiny for their actions of pulling players status. If they make those changes prior to big name players signing with LIV, yesterday would not have been necessary. Now, the Tour is doing exactly what it accused/chastised its break away players of doing.

All of this was preventable, but the Tour thought it was invincible to outside challengers. They were wrong.

 

[TEA Time]

According to Rory, LIV will essentially dissolve because PIF is the parent company of LIV and the PGA Tour is merging with PIF, not LIV. Monahan will be the Commissioner of the whole shebang, meaning he's now the leader of the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour, with PIF existing only as the financer.

If that's true, it's a major win for the PGA Tour because they will have bigger purses and the talent comes back, and a MASSIVE win for Monahan as he basically becomes the supreme leader of golf of the whole planet.

I still hate it, and none of those guys who did this merger (or the players) gives a shit what I think. And I guess that's fair.

 

[ualtim]

According to Rory, LIV will essentially dissolve because PIF is the parent company of LIV and the PGA Tour is merging with PIF, not LIV. Monahan will be the Commissioner of the whole shebang, meaning he's now the leader of the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour, with PIF existing only as the financer.

If that's true, it's a major win for the PGA Tour because they will have bigger purses and the talent comes back, and a MASSIVE win for Monahan as he basically becomes the supreme leader of golf of the whole planet.

I still hate it, and none of those guys who did this merger (or the players) gives a shit what I think. And I guess that's fair.

I do not think anyone knows how this all shakes out just yet. Rory hates LIV and is not shy to state that. I am thinking that he is speaking to the principles through the press on his wishes.

While LIV does not have a large following in the States, Australia loved having the LIV Tour play there and I am assuming other countries will see a fairly large following as well. If through this merger LIV gets a real TV package and high level Tour participation in the future, I can see the format staying put. With the right scheduling and participation I can see the format succeeding in conjunction with the regular Tour schedule. Could you imagine Tiger and his 3 guys playing against Phil and his three guys and Rory and his three guys and Koepka and his three guys and playing against Spieth, JT, Scheffler, and Ricky? It would be must see TV.

The next six months are definitely going to be interesting.

 

[MCDavis]

Bottom line, the PGA screwed up trying to control golfers, they lost revenue, they decided to go for the money just like the players who went to LIV did. The PGA is just another money grubbing corporation who will eventually do anything necessary to stay afloat and continue lining it's senior officers pockets. Their "non-profit" status is bullshit, as evidenced by this complete 180 in feelings towards LIV. What's scary to me is exactly what Tea said: "...a MASSIVE win for Monahan as he basically becomes the supreme leader of golf of the whole planet.". I personally don't think he has the ability or the ethics to be in this position, and he's going to screw up again. Like any other business, competition is good. There should be multiple high level tours for the players to choose from to keep them all as honest as possible. And each tour should welcome every player to their tournaments based strictly on their ability, shown through wins and high finishes, and nothing else including what tour(s) they do/don't belong to. At it's base, this is simply politics screwing up golf, and I f'ing hate politics.

 

[TEA Time]

Monahan says the players that didn't jump ship and lost out on all that money will be compensated.

lol I misspoke... he said they would be "rewarded" for their loyalty.

 

[warbirdlover]

Just glad to see all the good players back together.

 

[TEA Time]

Just glad to see all the good players back together.

I liked not seeing Bryson

 

[TEA Time]

The new tour is off and running...

 

[ualtim]

I liked not seeing Bryson

I disagree. Bryson adds entertainment value. I love how some tournament courses come up with new OB etc. to prevent Bryson from going alternate routes. I loved his effort to drive the the green at Bay Hill on the 6th. He is a different cat, that is for sure, but is that not what we crave on the tour? He is definitely not a robot.

As much as I despise Patrick Reed, it was kind of nice to have someone to root against. DeChambeau vs Koepka was great television. Mickelson, as much as some despise him, has been an innovator and always a good watch as you never know what he is going to attempt on the course. Looking at recent events, one could argue that today’s Tour players owe their income levels to Palmer, Woods, and Mickelson.

It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out, but I really want to see the best players playing against each other on a regular basis no matter what the format. There are some weeks on Tour that are nearly unwatchable with the current status.