• Welcome To ShotTalk.com!

    We are one of the oldest and largest Golf forums on the internet with golfers from around the world sharing tips, photos and planning golf outings.

    Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon!

Tiger plays 3 scratch players and kills them

cypressperch

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2006
681
3
Toledo Bend Lake, Louisiana
Country
United States United States
Like a wise old man once said, "This is like trying

to beat farts out of a dead mule." I think what is going on here with me is that I have worked long and hard to get where I am today (which is not that far of course!), and I can not in good faith to myself or anyone else with a fairly low handicap (that is accurate!) acknowledge powers in Tiger or anyone else that would make my own meager accomplishments smaller. A true scratch golfer will give me 3 strokes and I will be able to play him with an even chance to win. At +8.5, Tiger has to give the scratch golfer 8.5 strokes, so I get 11.5. If the three of us play a round, we will all be playing with an equal chance to win, provided we play the average round that went in to the determining of our handicaps. Have a bad day, you lose. But have a good day, you probably win if the others have average days.

The course where they are playing this match play event seems pretty wide open compared to places that I play. The rough in many places is not exceptionally difficult. The greens? I cannot help but believe that with greens so uniform and true as to roll that a lot of low handicap players, and perhaps others too, might have some of the best putting of their lives. Certainly, that lay-out is not like a US Open, and I think that I could do pretty well on that particular one.

Did anyone read what Tiger said when interviewed recently? He said that whenever he played that many matches in an event he was bound to have one or two bad rounds. Strange words from a God. As it turned out, he was correct and got beat though he struggled well. Tiger is not a God! He is mortal. He loses a lot more than some of you would believe, though he loses less than anyone else. He is a great, great athletic talent. One is not stupid to call him the best ever at golf because his records certainly justifies that conjecture. But some of the things that are said about Tiger are only things that a God could do, and Tiger cannot ever do those things. A God could spot Cypressperch three strokes a hole and still win. A God could eagle every hole, but no mortal has ever birdied every hole. Ben Hogan DREAMED of making eighteen straight birdies because it seemed possible. He may have hurt himself trying to make that dream a reality. To eagle every hole is beyond even Tiger.

So like it or not, Tiger just isn't that much better than Ol' Cypressperch. (By now, you know I like that sound of that sentence even though I only feel comfortable with the 36 strokes at a US Open Course when I am only entitled to 11.5 or whatever. It just sounds good.)

I honestly do believe that some do not realize how good a true zero handicap golfer has to be. They can go almost as low as the touring pros, but they just don't do it quite as often. Also, there is a wide variety of golfers who can have the same handicap. The long driver who playes "bomb and gouge" versus the machine that stays in the fairway, plays smart, and lets his short game do the scoring. I know, with Tiger it does not matter, he will win regardless.

The really neat thing about this forum when compared to a lot of others is how well we keep our composure when what we think is brought into question. Some of you have Tiger up there a little too high on a pedestal for me, but you are free to do that if you like. His achievements are amazing but never beyond the realm of possibility. When he starts shooting rounds with two or three aces, ten birdies, and an occasional albatros, I reserve the right to change my mind about his being or not being mortal. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :miz:

Lastly, can you just imagine what Tiger would be capable of if he started playing Mizuno MP-67's? It would not be fair to the other pros, would it?
And those old Hogan irons were not that bad, to say the very least.
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
"I guess it all really doesnt matter at this point, I have my thoughts about how good Tiger is and you have yours and we shall leave it at that..."

But Jim,no one has disputed how good he is.The thread has simple become a debate about the singular inability of Tiger fans to see common sense.To actually believe he can win 16 holes from 3 scratch players on a course with a standard scratch of 68 is mind boggingly niave.As I said earlier,they only need to shoot 80 each to lose 1 hole against Tiger's 68.16 holes was ridiculous as is the inability of Tiger worhsippers to do some simple maths before beating the same drum.Tiger is human.

To end,I believe Tiger is one if the 3 greatest players of all time,no question.
 

BigJim13

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Aug 13, 2006
11,840
3,154
dave.;108494 But Jim said:
True, Nobody has disputed how good Tiger is, but some have been slightly delusional about their own ability. Do I think Tiger could consistently win 16 holes against 3 scratch golfers? No, probably not consistently, but if Tiger got hot and was playing like he was last year at the British or PGA then no scratch golfer (or shottalker) would have a chance.

I am not delusional about how good Tiger is and do not worship him and think he could do things that are humanly impossible. I just dont think some here REALIZE just how good he is...
 

ualtim

Carrollton, TX
Supporting Member
Aug 20, 2005
7,779
2,331
Country
United States United States
To end,I believe Tiger is one if the 3 greatest players of all time,no question.

Tiger / Hogan / Nicklaus ??? (I would have put Jones in there, but I know your a Hogan desciple :D)
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
Jim

I do realise how good Tiger is,but equally I can work out 77 minus 68 is not 16
 

BigJim13

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Aug 13, 2006
11,840
3,154
Jim

I do realise how good Tiger is,but equally I can work out 77 minus 68 is not 16


I think part of the problem is that people are seeing that Tiger is a +8 and they are a 3,4,5 handicap and thinking that Tiger is ONLY 11,12, or 13 strokes better than them, when in REALITY the truth is that Tigers is miles better. I reassert that the difference between a 15 handicap and a scratch golfer is equal to the difference between a scratch golfer and a touring pro, its more than just strokes to a handicap....
 

cypressperch

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2006
681
3
Toledo Bend Lake, Louisiana
Country
United States United States
In my golf association we almost always play

according to our handicaps. What chance does a three handicap have against a twenty-five? The twenty-five guys will often shoot in the high fifties! The range of their scores is dramatically larger when they have those higher handicaps. If they have a great day, Tiger cannot win at their home courses from their tees. It gets really difficult to shoot below sixty from even the shortest set of tees.

When it is said that Tiger is "miles" better than someone, I am not sure what that means. But it seems to mean Tiger can do anything such as giving two strokes a hole at the US Open course to a three handicap which is 25 strokes more than he has to, but he still wins. And somehow, I or another three handicap player is labeled delusional for having the bizarre idea that we could win against Tiger in such a situation. I really do not think I am underestimating Tiger or the three handicapper if I think the three handicapper will win with those thirty-six strokes. I believe some either have Tiger's ability magnified too much (Remember, I will agree that he may be better than Jack, Ben, Bobby, Byron, Sammy, and the rest.) or do not understand what a three handicap player is capable of, or perhaps both. Tiger is SO good that any phrase that has a three handicap player winning against Tiger SOUNDS wrong. I know it sounds wrong, but it is not wrong. Tiger is not THAT MUCH BETTER THAN me or anyone else who has an accurate handicap that they can play to. Even if Tiger is MILES better, he still is not THAT MUCH BETTER THAN Ol' Cypressperch! (Sorry, I just had to write that again, but it is true. They say that the truth hurts, but I mean to cause no Tiger fan any pain. I think he is a wonderful, amazing athlete who has pushed the bar very high--(+8.5 truly is uncharted territory!), but it is still not enough to whip Ol' Cypressperch when he gets thirty-six strokes.

Someone mentioned 9 down and 8 to play. That was one of Tiger's most amazing feats. Obviously, he cannot do that every single time he plays. If he did, organized religion, as we know it today, would be in serious trouble. To have threatened (sort of) Byron Nelson's eleven straight victories was remarkable, but alas, it was not to be. I would be surprised if Tiger wins all four majors this year to give him six majors in a row, but that is not impossible, and what an achievement that would be! I can see how some who have to play Tiger as they make a living might choke at times even though second place checks today can provide a very comfortable living. Such pressure would not be a part of a match like the ludicrous one we have been discussing for so long. That match will not happen, but if Tiger is not a coward, he will find out about this debate and come to Cypress Bend to prove what he can do. I think he has a few days off that he might not have counted on having. With that I am going out to the course to get myself ready just in case he shows up. Having said all this stuff, I cannot afford to lose. I can just see those words, "I told you so!":laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :miz: :laugh: :miz: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sincerely, Cypressperch
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
And now the bizarre just gets even mroe ludicrous.So Tiger is 15 shots better than a scratch golfer? So on a tour prepared course with an sss of 78 Tiger would shoot 63 every time? Yet another example of Tiger desease affecting seemingly rational people.He plays off a US handicap of +8.7.This makes him 8.7 shots better than a scratch golfer,maybe 10 when you acccount for the courses he is playing.

However,factor back in the amount he plays,the advice he gets,the money he has at his disposal and it starts to balance these things.Take a scratch amateur and give him limitless time and money and the best advice and Tiger will be a few shots a round better,no more.This is the difference between making money and being the best in the world.

15 shots better,bloody hell,some of you have lost all sense of reality.I also want to add I had a round with Nick Faldo at his best in a pro-am,and I was off 1 at the time.he shot 72 and me 73.I got to measure my game against the worlds number 1.It wasn't 15 shots.

Get a grip
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
15 shots better,bloody hell,some of you have lost all sense of reality.I also want to add I had a round with Nick Faldo at his best in a pro-am,and I was off 1 at the time.he shot 72 and me 73.I got to measure my game against the worlds number 1.It wasn't 15 shots.

Get a grip


Agreed. dave. has it right on with that post
 

cypressperch

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2006
681
3
Toledo Bend Lake, Louisiana
Country
United States United States
Who would have ever thought of it? Tiger

did not show up today, and I was ready! One birdie, one boggie, seven pars for an even par 36. Had Tiger been there, it has been said that I would be incapable of shooting such a round because of Tiger-Pressure. If I get my 5.75 strokes for that nine, Tiger has to shoot 30 to win. He is capable of THAT. If I get a stroke a hole, then he needs 26 to win, 27 to tie. That is beyond what any human has ever done, and we will not get into that 2 strokes a hole thing any more.

Folks, I know we have worn this thing to death, but I think I have stumbled on to something that might be significant. Today, I was thinking that I was really playing Tiger Woods. My concentration was really good. Only once did I lose my concentration, and sure enough, that resulted in the boggie. I can often get to talking to playing partners about stuff, or just start thinking about stuff, and the next thing you know I do not go through my routine the usual way, and bad things happen. I wanted to do well against this non-present Tiger, and I think it helped me out. When I got the birdie on number four after three opening pars, I was almost pumped! I did not tell anyone what I was thinking, and they looked a little confused when I said, "Take that Tiger!" when the ball rolled into the #4 cup. Imagine what it would do for your ability to compete if you were playing Tiger ever time you teed up! Yes, I think this might be a useful concept.

Sincerely, Cypressperch
 

gwlee7

Ho's from Rocky Mount, NC
Supporting Member
Jun 15, 2005
1,402
1
I will just pretend I'm Nick O'Hearn and I'll win every time.
 

BigJim13

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Aug 13, 2006
11,840
3,154
we will not get into that 2 strokes a hole thing any more.

You understand that that was semi sarcastic trying to make a point correct? It seems that you and several others have taken that out of context and run with it.

On another note, surely you cannot believe that playing with an imaginary Tiger proves your point? Just because you believe, in your head, that you would shoot this wonderful score of 36, does not mean that you will.

This topic has been beaten to death, there is no way that I will get you to believe my point. And there is no way you will get me to believe yours, therefore I am retiring from this argument. It has been fun though, if not irritating at times.
icon10.gif
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
This topic has been beaten to death, there is no way that I will get you to believe my point. And there is no way you will get me to believe yours, therefore I am retiring from this argument. It has been fun though, if not irritating at times.

Indeed. Will you believe me when I beat him on the PGA? Trust me, when it happens ill be right back here with the thread title "HEY BIGJIM13!!!!":D
 

BigJim13

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Aug 13, 2006
11,840
3,154
Indeed. Will you believe me when I beat him on the PGA? Trust me, when it happens ill be right back here with the thread title "HEY BIGJIM13!!!!":D

If that happens I will be the first in line to eat some crow
icon10.gif
 

cypressperch

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2006
681
3
Toledo Bend Lake, Louisiana
Country
United States United States
I think we have found a point on

which we can agree. We have definitely beaten this thing to death. Also, you are correct about your being irritating at times.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I certainly was not thinking that beating a non-present Tiger was like beating the real Tiger. Had the real Tiger been there I would not have lost my concentration, and would have been one under. My point was that something good had come from this Great Debate which was that just imagining that a match with Tiger was going on really did make me more aware of what was going on in that nine holes. It was not the best nine ever, but it was pretty solid, and I would certainly like to continue with such rounds.

With all that has been written about Tiger, I do think that most people interested in golf know how good Tiger is. I am pretty sure that the lower one's handicap, the less likely that one will over-state the greatness of this amazing athlete. Hogan was correct when he said that golf is a game of the best missed shots, and that there were only a few really near perfect shots in his rounds. Nicklaus has said that. Jones said it. Tiger has said it. And for the record, Ol' Cypressperch now says the same thing. A high handicap player's missed shots and best shots will make Tiger appear like a God. Someone close to scratch will hit good shots that are better than Tiger's missed shots. You make a putt from a given distance, that is as good as anyone can do. You chip in, same thing. You hit a wedge to a foot of the hole, Tiger would be satisfied with that. I hit several shots a round that any touring pro would be satisfied with, perhaps even elated to have made at times. So, the subject of Tiger is tremendously SUBJECTIVE. Touring pros know how great Tiger is even though they actually beat him at times. Even when they beat him, they know they had to be really on to have had a chance, but they know it is possible, even though they do not get any strokes! So when that television PGA ad comes on saying, "These guys are good!" that is the absolute truth, and Tiger is the best of the good. A three handicap is not scratch, but you are getting close enough to see light at the end of the tunnel. You shoot a sub-par round, and you can see the end of the tunnel pretty good. That is why, I refuse to give in to the notion that I cannot see that light, that the light is miles away. It may be miles away for some folks, but I can see it. (I am not saying that someday I will play as well as Tiger! I am saying that I am approaching the point where no golfer will give me a stroke a hole.)

The best of luck to everyone as they move toward the Light. Sincerely, Cypressperch
 

🔥 Latest posts

Top