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top 10 ALL TIME GREATEST

Libre

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Not based on overall achievement, or any single stat.
Just - their measure of sustained dominance.
Authority. Composure on the course. Impact on the game.
And the world.

In the golf Hall of Fame in my mind, here is my list:

1. Tiger
2. Jack
3. Arnie
4. Ben Hogan
5. Seve B
6. Greg Norman
7. Phil M
8. Sam Snead
9. Byron Nelson (out of respect - I don't know his game at all)
10.

I can't think of anyone else in this league.
Taking nominations for the Hall.
No active players (although Tiger may not be completely washed up - he's automatically my number 1 no matter what).

Please feel free to add or delete from this list to reflect YOUR hall.
 

limpalong

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Not based on overall achievement, or any single stat.
Just - their measure of sustained dominance.
Authority. Composure on the course. Impact on the game.
And the world.

In the golf Hall of Fame in my mind, here is my list:

1. Tiger
2. Jack
3. Arnie
4. Ben Hogan
5. Seve B
6. Greg Norman
7. Phil M
8. Sam Snead
9. Byron Nelson (out of respect - I don't know his game at all)
10.

I can't think of anyone else in this league.
Taking nominations for the Hall.
No active players (although Tiger may not be completely washed up - he's automatically my number 1 no matter what).

Please feel free to add or delete from this list to reflect YOUR hall.

1. Tiger Tiger
2. Jack Jack
3. Arnie Arnie
4. Ben Hogan Hogan
5. Seve B Seve
6. Greg Norman Tom Watson
7. Phil M Snead (You said no active players. Phil is still playing a fairly full schedule.)
8. Sam Snead Player
9. Byron Nelson Trevino
10. Chi-Chi
 
OP
Libre

Libre

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Tom was always in Jack's shadow - although he did a lot - but to me Greg had a bigger impact world wide. And Tom's struggles in his latter career didn't help his image. But this is just hair splitting. Tiger Woods followed by Jack stand out far in front of all the others.
 

TEA Time

Grumpy Gilmore
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1. Tiger Tiger Happy Gilmore
2. Jack Jack Shooter McGavin
3. Arnie Arnie Bob Barker
4. Ben Hogan Hogan
5. Seve B Seve
6. Greg Norman Tom Watson
7. Phil M Snead (You said no active players. Phil is still playing a fairly full schedule.)
8. Sam Snead Player
9. Byron Nelson Trevino
10. Chi-Chi

The rest seem about right.
 
OP
Libre

Libre

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Gary Player over Greg Norman.
I have no problem adding Gary Player to the list - there is an open slot. But not over Greg Norman. While Gary is clearly light years ahead of Greg in terms of Majors (9 vs 2), Greg was runner up in majors 8 x but there is an amazing stat for Greg and I can't find an equivalent for Gary and maybe that's because they didn't rank golfers the same way in Gary's day. But take a look at this list and then tell me Greg doesn't belong:
Weeks at number one
Rank Player Weeks
1 Tiger Woods 683
2 Greg Norman 331
3 Nick Faldo 97
4 Rory McIlroy 95

and Chi-Chi was a colorful player but he's not embossed in my mind as in this category but I'll have to look at his record closer.

I'd love to nominate Fred Couples, actually, but he's not up there with Hogan and Woods. Fred was one of the best players of his time, but not of ALL time. The fact that anyone could beat him at all was a testament to how good THEY were.
 
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TheTrueReview

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I miss these guys.

26907242_10157052293777995_779911097636980921_n.jpg
 

limpalong

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If you really count composure on the course, I gotta move Tiger down a few places. Arnie and Jack seemed more professionally composed.
Reading over the hour by hour, day by day, month by month, year by year historical narrative of the Karsten vs. PGA battle I lost a lot of respect for Palmer and Nicklaus. I knew Jack was one of the instigators but did not realize Arnie was even more so. Palmer stated over and over that he would break Karsten/Ping... and, thank goodness, he didn't.

So, to take into consideration all the aspects mentioned in the original post... and to see where the poster did not specify "player"....

Not based on overall achievement, or any single stat.
Just - their measure of sustained dominance.
Authority. Composure on the course. Impact on the game.
And the world.


1.) Tiger: Sustained dominance, impact on the game
2.) Nicklaus: Sustained dominance, impact on the game
3.) Karsten Solheim: Impact on the game, the world of golf, authority
4.) Hogan: Sustained dominance, impact on the game (both player and manufacturer)
5.) Eli Callaway: Impact on the game, the world of golf
6.) Bobby Jones, Jr.: Sustained dominance, The Masters, the world of golf, authority
7.) Gary Player: Sustained dominance, ambassador that grew golf across the globe
8.) Tom Morris, Sr. and Jr.: (Thanks, IG) Sustained dominance when golf was played in goat pastures and "built" the game we love and play decades later.

 
OP
Libre

Libre

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Reading over the hour by hour, day by day, month by month, year by year historical narrative of the Karsten vs. PGA battle I lost a lot of respect for Palmer and Nicklaus. I knew Jack was one of the instigators but did not realize Arnie was even more so. Palmer stated over and over that he would break Karsten/Ping... and, thank goodness, he didn't.
limpalong - what did Palmer and Nicklaus do to lose your respect? I remember the USGA vs Karsten Solheim war, but I didn't follow the details as you have. I remember the USGA declaring the Ping Eye 2 clubs to be illegal in tournament play, due to the non-conforming shape of the grooves, which the USGA claimed gave the player an unfair advantage - unless everyone used the Ping clubs - which of course would put Palmer, Nicklaus, and Hogan out of the golf club manufacturing business. The players mostly were rooting for Solheim, because they indeed wanted to play the square grooves. Finally they all came to terms on the shape of the grooves.

I suspect that Arnie and Jack were as ruthless off the course as on it. They had to win. It was in their nature. Power corrupts, as we know so well. Almost every great figure in history has a dark side in addition to their accomplishments. Just reading about what we now know about Columbus and Edison, etc, can make you lose respect for all our heroes.
But Arnie and Jack????
 
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limpalong

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The USGA, after employing an independent testing facility, found the Ping grooves were within the thickness of a dollar bill from being in conformance with the rules. They also found other manufactuers' grooves were farther out of conformance than were those tested from Ping. So, the USGA and Karsten came to an agreement where they both shook hands and walked away. The agreement had no fault or dollars attached. Karsten agreed to change his grooves to where they would be in total conformance, gave his patent for a hand-held device that would check conformance of grooves to the USGA with no compensation, and the USGA left the Eye 2 grooves okay to use in competition for a number of years.
Ping was quickly becoming the predominant iron of choice for both professional and amateur. Nicklaus owned most of MacGregor. Palmer owned Pro Group. Their sales were dropping and the professionals playing their clubs were talking about changing to Ping irons. Deane Beaman was head of the PGA. Beaman changed the method of measuring grooves so that only the Ping irons would be non-conforming... that method deviated from the USGA/R&A standard methodss. This kept the professionals in the PGA who had stakes in the equipment companies happy. Karsten was an "outsider" taking over the golf equipment business by storm. Beaman also felt that if the PGA could "license" a specific manufactuer's irons, a specific ball, etc. there was a lot of money to be made by way of that licensing agreement.
With only his irons being singled out as non-conforming and thousands of both amateurs and professionals now wondering if their clubs would no longer by "legal", Karsten had to litigate the PGA. Remember... The long term litigation was between KMC (Karsten Manufacturing Company and the PGA. Not the USGA!!) The litigation drug on and on with depositions and delays. As this wore on and the attorneys became more deeply involved, it was apparent that Karsten would prevail. Karsten had sued the PGA for $100 million. The PGA had a $1 million liability policy that would not come close to covering Beaman. And, none of the professionals who had joined the PGA in the litigation would be covered at all. The professionals dropped out of the suit. That left it pretty apparent that the PGA would soon be owned... lock, stock, and barrel... by Karsten Solheim. Karsten did not want to see the PGA... or anyone... put out of business. He just wanted the irons he had designed to no longer have their integrity... nor his... tainted. Finally, the PGA chose to honor the same agreement that Karsten had struck with the USGA and life went on. John Solheim felt that the extended litigation took 5 to 7 years off his dad's life. Ping suffered monumentally by having Karsten focused on the litigation instead of club design.
Once the litigation was over, Karsten even sent personal checks to the professionals who had joined the PGA against him to help cover their legal costs. He and Louise continued to support professional golf, especially the LPGA. He and Louise personally wrote the check that would fund the Solheim Cup for its first 18 years just so the LPGA could get global attention similar to the Ryder Cup.

That's a short synopsis. If you ever get a chance to own the book "And the Putter Went Ping" it is an amazing historical read, with lots of substantiating documentation. I've been working on it since Christmas and am just barely half through. I will read a while and then wonder if I caught all that I just read. You go back and re-read to clarify in your mind what actually happened. Karsten was a genius who held lots of patents, not all in the golf industry. He began the idea for his first putter while working as an engineer with GE. The son of immigrants to the U.S., he started with nothing and ended up building a multi-million dollar company that employed hundreds of people. He was extremely generous with sharing his profits with his employees, many of them staying with KMC for 30 to 40 years.
 

limpalong

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That's business, Limp. Let's rate Palmer and Nicklaus for their on-the-course behavior. If we count off-the-course stuff, we'd have to eliminate Woods altogether.
Agree 100%. If we are talking the players and their impact on the Game, I indicated my opinion in the earliest post. There, I rated Nicklaus and Palmer as #2 and #3. As the thread was revived, I reread the original post. No where did it specify players, even thought that was intimated. The OP also used qualifiers of "impact on the game" and "the world".
In my second listing, I should have also included Gary Adams. Adams started Taylor Made and brought about the advent of metal drivers and fairway woods. Had it not been for Adams, Karsten, Eli Callaway, etc.... if the implements used to play this Game were left to the professionals playing the game we would still be using persimmon or laminated maple drivers, thin as butter knife blade irons, and 8802 style putters.
So many fans of this Game are familiar only with the Greats they have seen on television. That was exemplified by the phenomenal impact Tiger had on this Game. No one... NO ONE had ever played the game as well and excited not only those playing the Game but motivating people to take up the Game. Being an "equipment junkie" I love to get more into the history of the Game and the evolution thought the years. Hickory shafts... Gutta percha balls... liquid center balls.... I even have one or two of the old Worthington steel center balls.
The Game has come a long ways since Old Tom Morris and Young Tom Morris... and before them. It's come a long ways from the days purses would not pay the players' gas money to get from tournament to tournament. It was the side bets and the Calcuttas behind the scenes where they made their traveling money. Those who could envision a better club design in their minds were just as important as the players who could envision a baby draw to a tucked pin... and stick it there.
 

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