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V grooves & 2010 (part 3)

TheTrueReview

"Playing it straight"
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Jan 8, 2009
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Guys, this isn't a rant but I'll apologise in advance for it being a longish post but I needed to include a couple of quotes.

I was just reading an article on the Titleist website about whether the ProV range will be changed b/c of the groove changes (short answer - no).

I was stunned to read other stats which, if correct, mean the basis for the groove changes is fundamentally flawed. The expressed reason for the change being that it is to encourage accuracy off the tee by making shots from the rough more difficult due to the smaller grooves. There has been much said about the apparent 'bomb & gouge' approach of PGA Tour players. Below is a quote from the USGA announcement in 2008

"Our research shows that the rough has become less of a challenge for the highly skilled professional and that driving accuracy is now less of a key factor for success," said USGA Senior Technical Director Dick Rugge. "We believe that these changes will increase the challenge of the game at the Tour level, while having a very small effect on the play of most golf​
ers."

USGA: USGA Announces Rules Changes On Golf Club Grooves

Yet, have a look at the quote below from Titleist which reproduces Shotlink stats for the 2009 Tour about actual amount of shots played from the rough by the PGA Tour pros.

The shotlink stats (amongst other things) show that the complaint that players blaze away from the tee, not caring where the shot landed because the u-grooves would save them from the rough, is nothing more than a myth.

"Through extensive player and machine testing, we have determined the part of the game the groove changes will affect most is shots from the rough inside 100 yards, where there will be a 30 to 50 percent loss of spin for most players. Spin on iron tee shots and full fairway shots will be virtually unaffected. According to 2009 PGA TOUR player data from ShotLink, less than four percent of all shots during a round are struck from the rough within 100 yards from the green. That translates to about three shots per round on a par 72 golf course."

Titleist.com - News: Technology

I almost couldn't believe my eyes - approximately 3 shots per round on a par 72 course were being played from the rough within 100 yards from the green. 3 shots!! So the USGA and R & A have initiated this (major) change to equipment specifications and it affects 3 shots per round!! A complete farce.
 

limpalong

Mental Ward Escapee
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Oct 18, 2006
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The 2010 groove rule will go down as one of the most ill-conceived rule changes in the game... ever! First, implementation.

The pros must use "conditions of competition" grooves beginning now. The rest of us...??? Sounds like most state associations will require "conditions of competition" grooves about 2014. However, most recreational players have until 2024 to make the change. What will happen at our local club championships? 2014? 2018? 2024? A player could be completely conforming while playing at his club in 2015 with his old sticks. He could move across town and join a new club and be non-conforming. The implementation stinks!

The pros, as you say, may see 3 shots per round out of the rough inside 100 yards. At that level... with the skill of those who play this game for a living... they will quickly adapt to the new grooves and those 3 shots/round will be just as close to the pin as they would have been with the old grooves. These guys wear out the grooves on a half-dozen wedges/year. They practice non-stop. They have feel that we can only imagine. This groove rule will make virtually no difference in the game the pros play.

I would venture a bet that no manufacturer has destroyed the molds for the current goove designs. By the end of this year, the USGA will realize what a ridiculous ruling this was. Will they ever admit it and repeal the ruling? I doubt it. But, they may. And, as we get closer to the 2014 time frame, some additional decisions will need made. That may be the time the rule is repealed.

I have always prided myself in playing this game by the Rules of Golf. I don't roll the ball. I take my penalties according to the Rules. I play the ball as it lies. There is no way you would find one of the non-conforming drivers with a COR over .830 in my bag. There's no way you would find a non-conforming putter or driver or ball in my bag. For the first time since I've taken up this game, I could care less if I abide by this rule. Granted, if I don't have to conform until 2024, I'll be 77 years old and could give a rat's behind.

It's too bad Karsten Solheim isn't still alive. He'd tell the USGA to go pound sand. Today's manufacturers are so excited about the windfall of people buying "conditions of competition" irons and wedges, they are not going to rock the boat. Karsten would have.
 

Augster

Rules Nerd
Supporting Member
Mar 9, 2005
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"Through extensive player and machine testing, we have determined the part of the game the groove changes will affect most is shots from the rough inside 100 yards, where there will be a 30 to 50 percent loss of spin for most players. Spin on iron tee shots and full fairway shots will be virtually unaffected. According to 2009 PGA TOUR player data from ShotLink, less than four percent of all shots during a round are struck from the rough within 100 yards from the green. That translates to about three shots per round on a par 72 golf course."

This 4% stat is flawed. What percentage of putts are played from the rough??? None.

On the ficticious par 72, we are now at 36 shots, assuming 36 putts, which is a terrible round btw.

There are 14 drives. None of these will be played from the rough. We are down to 22 shots.

How many of these 22 shots are going to be from 100 and in? Long par 4's are rarely played from 100 and in. Is 4 of them a conservative number? 18 shots to play.

Now, if you have only 3, (THREE????) shots from the rough, inside 100 yards, that is 17% of the shots from inside 100yards are from the rough.

And 3 shots from the rough inside 100 yards, including chips and bunker shots, is an unbelievably small amount unless you are talking about the top 5% in GIR on the PGA. Guys that can hit 16-18 greens.

The "average" PGA Tour pro hits 13 greens in reg. He is missing the green 5 times per round.

From watching the SBS, it certainly looked like the grooves were working their magic. Most importanly on downhill chips from the rough.
 

cyberious

Planet Love Tron
Feb 19, 2005
527
2
I used to play Professional Paintball in the NPPL. What the manufacturers did was bring out a new $1000 - 1500+ paintball gun every couple of months that you had to have. Once it came out the previous $1000 - 1500+ dollar paintball gun dropped roughly 50-80% of its value. Then they mandated that paintball guns perform at a certain maximum level rendering all prior tournament level paintball guns worthless. Then guess what the public revolted refusing to continually buy these new paintball guns and several companies went out of business and the industry consolidated. Now for roughly $500 you can not only get your paintball gun, but a mask an air tank, and some paint to play with. Does this sound like a familiar cycle?

I for one am irritated that my irons Taylormade TP MB Satin which look the same as the TP MB Smoke version (and I'm told are the same irons without the newer smoke finish) are not conforming while the Smoke version are. They look exactly the same to me side by side. Sounds like a marketing ploy by the USGA (Useless Society of Golf A**holes).
 

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