N.V.M.
now...a cartoon
- Sep 27, 2008
- 1,972
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Why you don't get better.
- Thread starter N.V.M.
- Start date
SilverUberXeno
El Tigre Blanco
- Jul 26, 2005
- 4,620
- 26
Sounds like this guy might want to look into Rotella's stuff.
- Jan 8, 2009
- 8,204
- 6,042
- Country
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Australia
Interesting stuff NVM. I've listened to Steve Bann interviews a number of times. He always comes across as astute and sensible.
- Jul 11, 2008
- 589
- 2
that made sense but I have one other possibility for why handicaps haven't dropped over the past several years. Look at the huge in-flux of golfers into the pool who are adding more and more high handicaps each year. So the trend have shown even more improvement for golfers over the years than those numbers were showing.
kasch
Well-Known Member
- Apr 23, 2009
- 35
- 0
You can play 14 rounds a week and still not improve. Beleive me, i tried.
When i was 16-17, i was off a handicap of 10 and was stuck on that number. Played and hit balls 6 days a week for roughly 7 months and saw limited improvement. The reason? I was ingraining the wrong things. I finally decided to see a swing coach, and in 3 months i was down to a 5 handicap and well on my way to state team qualifying and my current scratch handicap. I'm almost 19 now, and can't beleive how arrogant i was to think i could improve significantly in this game by myself, doing my own things.
One of the saddest things to read or hear from a fellow player is "yeah, i'll be heading down the range this arvo to try and work through this problem" or "yeah, just heading down to the range for a quick tune up before i head out to play". This approach, unfortunately, will never work, unless the player is receiving guidance from a good instructor. I don't mean have a pro over your shoulder every range session, but regular visits to build a reliable and repeatable swing is the key to good golf.
Once you have the guidance of a professional the game and your development will become a lot easier, because the time you dedicate to the game is focused on the right elements which will make you improve. I know people who have played for 30 years and cant get past an 18 handicap. Why? Because they dedicate their time to the wrong things.
I truly beleive the secret to success with this game is practicing and playing alot - but only when you have the right ideas and techniques in mind.
Guys who hit balls 7 times a week and play 3 rounds but have never been coached and want to go it alone will never improve. It's the guy who plays and practices the right way that will exceed with his golf game.
When i was 16-17, i was off a handicap of 10 and was stuck on that number. Played and hit balls 6 days a week for roughly 7 months and saw limited improvement. The reason? I was ingraining the wrong things. I finally decided to see a swing coach, and in 3 months i was down to a 5 handicap and well on my way to state team qualifying and my current scratch handicap. I'm almost 19 now, and can't beleive how arrogant i was to think i could improve significantly in this game by myself, doing my own things.
One of the saddest things to read or hear from a fellow player is "yeah, i'll be heading down the range this arvo to try and work through this problem" or "yeah, just heading down to the range for a quick tune up before i head out to play". This approach, unfortunately, will never work, unless the player is receiving guidance from a good instructor. I don't mean have a pro over your shoulder every range session, but regular visits to build a reliable and repeatable swing is the key to good golf.
Once you have the guidance of a professional the game and your development will become a lot easier, because the time you dedicate to the game is focused on the right elements which will make you improve. I know people who have played for 30 years and cant get past an 18 handicap. Why? Because they dedicate their time to the wrong things.
I truly beleive the secret to success with this game is practicing and playing alot - but only when you have the right ideas and techniques in mind.
Guys who hit balls 7 times a week and play 3 rounds but have never been coached and want to go it alone will never improve. It's the guy who plays and practices the right way that will exceed with his golf game.
Bignose
Well-Known Member
- Oct 23, 2006
- 426
- 2
kasch,
I think that "never" is too strong of a word. Every club has a half dozen self-taught codgers who can school you coming and going, and those guys little more than just hit balls until they knew exactly what they were going to do every time. Associated with that is that a lot of them won't have a textbook swing, but they know what they have and how to make it work.
I also do think that one can self-teach, especially if, as you said, you are (self-)teaching "the right things". The right things can be found out there, in books, on the Internet, and in my opinion to a lessor extent magazines and TV. And, if one makes themselves aware of it, they can concentrate on what their body is actually doing, not on what it just feels like it is doing. And, of course, one can purchase video equipment oneself and watch themselves train.
The best example of this: Moe Norman. He never took a lesson in his life and yet is regarded as one of the best ball strikers that ever lived. His social issues kept him from being a true success on the PGA Tour -- though to be fair those same social issues are probably what drove him to be such a perfectionist with his swing. His swing certainly wasn't textbook, in that his grip and stance and all that were very unorthodox. The motion the club made was almost as perfect "one-plane" as possible, however. The way he achieved such excellence in ball striking was 100% due to putting in hour after hour, and bucket after bucket at the range.
In addition, I think that it is also fair to say that there is a significant number of instructors out there who frankly, aren't very good. Many of them only know the swing that worked for them, and can only teach that, and they are lost if their students are unable to replicate their motions exactly. There are many people who thought they were doing "the right things" and going to an instructor only to demonstrate no improvement or possibly even worsening. Finding that "right" instructor can be a very difficult task.
Now, most people could probably use some instruction, even if it isn't perfect, and most people beating balls at the range aren't really accomplishing much of anything, but using words like "never" is too negative in my opinion. I do think that self teaching is possible, though most people do not put the effort into self teaching, either. I do agree that in the end, it isn't just about willing to put in the work, but needing to work on the right things is important too. However, there are many avenues of figuring out the right things -- instructors being a big one but not the only one.
I think that "never" is too strong of a word. Every club has a half dozen self-taught codgers who can school you coming and going, and those guys little more than just hit balls until they knew exactly what they were going to do every time. Associated with that is that a lot of them won't have a textbook swing, but they know what they have and how to make it work.
I also do think that one can self-teach, especially if, as you said, you are (self-)teaching "the right things". The right things can be found out there, in books, on the Internet, and in my opinion to a lessor extent magazines and TV. And, if one makes themselves aware of it, they can concentrate on what their body is actually doing, not on what it just feels like it is doing. And, of course, one can purchase video equipment oneself and watch themselves train.
The best example of this: Moe Norman. He never took a lesson in his life and yet is regarded as one of the best ball strikers that ever lived. His social issues kept him from being a true success on the PGA Tour -- though to be fair those same social issues are probably what drove him to be such a perfectionist with his swing. His swing certainly wasn't textbook, in that his grip and stance and all that were very unorthodox. The motion the club made was almost as perfect "one-plane" as possible, however. The way he achieved such excellence in ball striking was 100% due to putting in hour after hour, and bucket after bucket at the range.
In addition, I think that it is also fair to say that there is a significant number of instructors out there who frankly, aren't very good. Many of them only know the swing that worked for them, and can only teach that, and they are lost if their students are unable to replicate their motions exactly. There are many people who thought they were doing "the right things" and going to an instructor only to demonstrate no improvement or possibly even worsening. Finding that "right" instructor can be a very difficult task.
Now, most people could probably use some instruction, even if it isn't perfect, and most people beating balls at the range aren't really accomplishing much of anything, but using words like "never" is too negative in my opinion. I do think that self teaching is possible, though most people do not put the effort into self teaching, either. I do agree that in the end, it isn't just about willing to put in the work, but needing to work on the right things is important too. However, there are many avenues of figuring out the right things -- instructors being a big one but not the only one.
kasch
Well-Known Member
- Apr 23, 2009
- 35
- 0
Ah yes, i guess "never" was the wrong word.
I've come across several good players who were self taught, but the majority who choose to go that avenue unfortunately find that they just stabilise their game at the level they are at.
Also, you raised an extremeley good point re: Finding the right instructor. I was very fortunate in finding my swing coach in that he was an advocate of the technique and swing i wanted to learn (gary edwins right sided swing) and was deeply involved in the Gary Edwin system. However, as you mentioned, there are _alot_ of coaches/pro's out there who simply teach what worked for them. When they get a client they work on just band-aiding the problems that they see during the 30minute or 1hour lesson, which truly is of little to no benefit for the player. When this happens the player is probably better off developing a 'feel' for his natural motion on the range and making it repeatable by himself.
And when i mention the guys who "want to go it alone" i'm talking more about the people who haven't read or gathered a set of good techniques and fundamentals but choose to just stand on the range for hours changing their swing every couple of balls to try make that ball go where they want it. That's no way to improve.
I've come across several good players who were self taught, but the majority who choose to go that avenue unfortunately find that they just stabilise their game at the level they are at.
Also, you raised an extremeley good point re: Finding the right instructor. I was very fortunate in finding my swing coach in that he was an advocate of the technique and swing i wanted to learn (gary edwins right sided swing) and was deeply involved in the Gary Edwin system. However, as you mentioned, there are _alot_ of coaches/pro's out there who simply teach what worked for them. When they get a client they work on just band-aiding the problems that they see during the 30minute or 1hour lesson, which truly is of little to no benefit for the player. When this happens the player is probably better off developing a 'feel' for his natural motion on the range and making it repeatable by himself.
And when i mention the guys who "want to go it alone" i'm talking more about the people who haven't read or gathered a set of good techniques and fundamentals but choose to just stand on the range for hours changing their swing every couple of balls to try make that ball go where they want it. That's no way to improve.
3Bogey
Well-Known Member
- Jan 20, 2006
- 96
- 0
The reason why golf is the greatest game ever is because of the daily challenges of trying to get oneself better. That is the draw for most I believe.....that competative drive that is deep within us all. I have excelled in other sports, especially basketball, but I have never been challenged in a way that golf has challenged me in the last 10 years of playing this wonderful sport. I, myself, actually enjoy the challenges of trying to improve on the game, especially on my own...That being said the last thing I want is a Golf Pro watching over me telling me I am doing this and that wrong and then topping it off with even more complexity. Been there done that and it got me know where except frustrated. Golf, life for that matter, is complex enough....like I want some more complexity in my life! I love the search. That is the challenge for me...but I want it on my terms not someone else's. Golf Pro instruction may be for some, but as a clubfitter, I have seen very few clients benefit from Golf Pro instruction. They simply do not have the athletic ability nor the time to make the changes. Get a video camera, video your swing, study the correct swing and try to emulate it. That to me is the best advice I have ever gotten to improve my game. I lack the athletic ability right now to go to the next level but Manavs is going to help me out with that......at least he better 
I have gone from a 30 to a 10 in the last 5 years and a 15 to a 10 last year alone because I started to understand the swing and where my deficiencies were because of a camara. I say try it you won't be dissapointed!
I have gone from a 30 to a 10 in the last 5 years and a 15 to a 10 last year alone because I started to understand the swing and where my deficiencies were because of a camara. I say try it you won't be dissapointed!Similar threads
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