Changing flights

[ezra76]

I have been working at this for quite some time and today I just had very good feel with the irons. I am wondering if this sounds right to the guys who are lower caps and can hit these shots? Instead of hitting these sweeping fades and draws I have been getting my iron shots to just kind of drift right or left near the end of the flight. I just mainly keep my weight forward more to get the fading shot. I tell myself to "stand on it" when I want to go at the right side of the green. I've also noticed that I can take spin on or off with the ball positon and the face positon at impact, oddly enough without affecting the flight a whole lot. This is like how I would open the face on my SW for less spin and close it down for more but now I'm getting it down with 7i-PW.

Any opinions, pointers?

 

[sidvicious]

i'm not quite yet in the cap catagory that you request, but i do have an observation relevant to your post.

i recently went to forged clubs. they're compatable with the blades that have a small carved cavity. small face and footprint.

one of the things i immediately noticed was that on shots that would normally sweep in one direction or another, the end result was a small curved tail, nicely dropping in.

i can still get that sweeping curve ball but i've had to adjust a bit, as the clubs don't require the funky movements that my game improvement slingshots required.

so, on long shots where one is more likely to encounter some movement even if unintended, i have definately noticed the effect you mention. in my case it is absolutely because of the club. had i hit the same shot with my slingshot 3 instead of my hatton 3, the shot would be dramatically more to the right or left.

this goes against convention, i realize, but i'm talking about a well struck ball with both clubs, basically the same swing. there is less movement lateral movement with the bladed cb's.

someday i'll stop touting the virtues of forged bladed clubs, but i'm still on the honeymoon.

 

[ezra76]

I have noticed the response to very small changes, it's just getting these responses on command I'm trying to master. I hit a PW this evening that I aimed at the trap on the right and it was dead at it until just as it got over it and then seemed to just drop to the left behind the stick. That one was nice and I made the bird. My clubs are cavity backs but very soft forged. The ball just seems to stay on the face forever. When I'm striking it well with the lofted irons it's almost like throwing the ball at the green.

 

[sidvicious]

my clubs are soft, but probably not quite as soft as yours. my first impression was how accurate they can be. that, and the ability to spin the ball was really a surprise. and no wonder, since game improvement clubs have trampoline faces, and generally large soles, the ball isn't on the face and you can't get under it.

i like the effect you speak of. when i'm trying to lay off the swing, i usually fade the ball a bit. the soft fade tail is becoming much easier for me to dial in with these clubs. i use it a lot with a 7 iron, basically pitching the ball from about 100 or so yards with a small bump and roll at the end. with a 3 iron the tail is the first shot out of the bag.

my cast clubs wouldn't behave in this way. they'd spin off much earlier and track further from the line.

 

[papperlapub]

Hi,

I am not quite sure I know what you mean by the "sweeping shot" that goes to the right or the left. But the ball flight that you described as the falling off - is for me a proper fade. The way I want it to go. For example when i play hard greens my green shots are most of the time fades, because they do not roll.

The fade should go very straight and as the speed of the ball decreases the spin should gain more control over the ball flight giving it this "falling" to the right.

 

[ezra76]

Thanks for the input. I was playing old cast Mizuno's my 1st couple years and would hit a "fade" by aiming pretty well left and bringing it around a good 15 yds. This is what I meant by a sweeping fade, the kind of shot that's more a slice on purpose I would use to cut it hard around trees or whatever. The ones I've been able to hit now are like you describe, moving only a few yards right at the end of the flight. The draws are similar but almost seem to drop back in to the left. It seems the draws spin more and sometimes spin back, the fades are more likely to kick a few feet forward and right.

 

[dave.]

Hmmm,'stand on it' is a sure fire way of developing some big pull hooks.I fade the ball by simply hitting against my left hand,this gives a hold off,and the ball fades,doing the stand on it thing seems a bit much for a fade

 

[Rockford35]

You know, I watched this show on the Golf Network once called Tigers Clinic or something lame like that. It had El Tigre showing his terrible legs off in shorts hitting shots of all types.

One of his shots was an average 8 iron. He showed how moving the ball and using your hands to guide the face resulted in differing flights.

For example, to hit it higher, he moved it up in his stance one ball width and made sure that his hands stayed square. Then, to hit it lower, he moved it back one ball width and made sure that the back of his left hand (for a righty), the glove hand, stayed pointed at the target for as long as possible. This shuts the face a tad and keeps the ball lower.

I had to turn the channel because I think Tiger is pompous, but he's an extremely learned pupil of the game and has all the shots. This was a simple trick, I'm gonna give it a go....next year.

R35

 

[ezra76]

Hmmm,'stand on it' is a sure fire way of developing some big pull hooks.I fade the ball by simply hitting against my left hand,this gives a hold off,and the ball fades,doing the stand on it thing seems a bit much for a fade

I guess I have to exagerrate these things as I am just learning them. The "stand on it" move is just basically ensuring I am hitting into a firm left side. These shots are getting easier to control as I develop the feel. Thanks Dave, I'll try to tone it down by thinking of hitting into the firm left hand/wrist and see it I can get these flights under some serious control.

 

[emc]

You know, I watched this show on the Golf Network once called Tigers Clinic or something lame like that. It had El Tigre showing his terrible legs off in shorts hitting shots of all types.

One of his shots was an average 8 iron. He showed how moving the ball and using your hands to guide the face resulted in differing flights.

For example, to hit it higher, he moved it up in his stance one ball width and made sure that his hands stayed square. Then, to hit it lower, he moved it back one ball width and made sure that the back of his left hand (for a righty), the glove hand, stayed pointed at the target for as long as possible. This shuts the face a tad and keeps the ball lower.

I had to turn the channel because I think Tiger is pompous, but he's an extremely learned pupil of the game and has all the shots. This was a simple trick, I'm gonna give it a go....next year.

R35

What's the beef with the Tiger?

 

[Rockford35]

What's the beef with the Tiger?

It's totally personal. I just don't like him as a person. He's not a role model by any means and has alienated, although by his domination, a sport that i love. He's single handedly brought on a new direction of golf, of which I hate...

"Get in the hole!"

Please...

R35

PS....it's totally personal. I know Tiger has a huge following, but I wouldn't cross the street to piss on him if he was on fire. That's just my opinion.

 

[dave.]

Rock

I like Tiger's one ball back/one ball forward advice,he uses this to hit the ball lower or higher,and to fade its a hold off and to draw its a full release.I think many players could learn this,he makes very minor adjustments for height and shape,instead amateurs make huge changes to achieve the same aims.

 

[Johannes]

It is easy to say or tell someone to hold off or release. But there is an great amount of timming involved with this. We are talking about fractions of a second...when you release or when you hold off. I think holding off (fading) the ball is much easier than releasing (drawing) the ball and KEEPING it on your target line.

When you guys say release are you talking about turning your wrists over through impact? At what point in your downswing are you doing this?

On the follow through...is there a club head position when your shaft is parallel to the ground that one should attemt to achieve?

Great thread...this is the good stuff.

-J

 

[Rockford35]

When you guys say release are you talking about turning your wrists over through impact? At what point in your downswing are you doing this?


-J

Here's a picture of Tiger hitting a draw with an iron. Notice his hand position, turning the head over ever so slightly.

I find a draw very easy to hit. But, as you've mentioned, harder to control than a subtle fade. Never fight a fade if that's your natural ball flight.

R35

 

[ezra76]

I was just doing some slow motion half-swings in my LR to see what I do. Here's the rundown.

Fade: I more or less come straight back and through as I would with a short pitch except with a slightly less than full swing shot. The face of the club seems to be exactly as it was at impact when it is slightly above my waist, shaft parallel to the ground. I have not released it yet.

Draw: I am taking the clubhead back on an inside path right off the start. I am actually starting out with a slightly open face and shutting it though impact with my forearms. Basically what I see is the face position at impact is pointing slightly right of the intented target. Once the shaft is parallel above my waist, however, it has been turned over, closed face and pointing straight at the target.

This is also with a PW. I suppose a more subtle movement is required as loft goes down.