a question about shafts and other things

[grazo]

Hey guys,

now I know I'm not the greatest golfer going around, so certainly there is human error involved in this BUT I have to ask...

All things being equal, if you had no problems hitting your irons right-to-left almost to the point where it was your natural shot, yet your driver was always going out straight-right and high, what does that say about the flex of the shaft in your driver? I realise that this is as much a swing issue as a shaft-flex issue, but I have to admit to getting frustrated with constantly hitting my driver straight-right. I have not been able to hit it right to left once!

Please help. Specs if you're interested: R580 9.5 degree YS-6 shaft (stiff) at 45 inches. Shafts in my irons are DG S300 and these seem to suit me perfectly.

Thanks heaps.

G.

 

[Slingblade61]

I think it's about shaft torque rather than flex.

I have a 580XD with a stock R flex shaft in it and I can work it right to left pretty easily. I close the face up a few degrees and the thing ....well.....let me tell you the story about the last time I did this........

Short par 4, 303 yards with a slight dogleg left, you cannot see the hole from the tee box.

I closed the face and let it fly......beautiful slow draw around the corner.

Landed on the green about 15 feet above the pin.

I also use a Dunlop Loco Pro with a 2 degree closed face....I cannot do this as easily with that club.....dunno why.

I found this tip on the net;

Hitting a draw is more difficult than hitting a fade for most people. The main influence on a balls flight is caused by the clubface at impact. If the clubface is open at impact, the ball will fade or slice. If the face is closed at impact, the ball will draw or hook. The amount of each hook or slice is dependent upon how open or closed the face is under each circumstance. So, with that said, you need to work on getting your clubface more closed at impact. There are a number of ways to do this. Start with your grip. Let's strengthen your grip to start. When you grip the club with your left hand...rotate your grip clockwise some so that you can see more knuckles. You should see 2 to 3 knuckles. When your right hand grips the club, make sure the "v" between your thumb and index finger points to your right shoulder. This will give you a "strong" grip.
The other thing to work on is the release. This means how you let the clubface rotate from open to close when the club meets the ball. Work on taking nice easy 3/4 length swings, with a nice light grip...don't strangle the club...you can release the clubface easier with a light grip.
As you approach the ball with your clubface, let your right hand turn over your left hand. Do this drill over and over to feel and see how the clubface closes. If you have trouble doing this, try seperating your hands about two inches and repeat the drill...it helps some people to the drill this way. Now start to hit some balls and only concentrate on hitting a ball that goes from right to left...turn the right hand over the left at impact or just before, and see the results.

 

[grazo]

Sling,

thanks for that - the advice was helpful, but I don't want to mess with my swing too much because I'm hitting my irons well at the moment. I want to match a shaft to my swing rather than re-tool my swing to fit the shaft of my driver (and lose control of my irons). I might try closing the face at set-up and see how that works though...

Can you explain torque to me? I understand what it is (the twisting of the clubface) but I don't understand how they rate it. Does a shaft with 2.5 torque twist more or less than one with 4.2? I'm assuming that if I have a torque problem, it is that I have too much???

thanks

 

[Slingblade61]

I am certainly no expert but I did find this and it sounds about right to me...

Another area that causes problems for long drive wannabes is shaft torque. We asked Canada’s Jason Zuback, the dominant long-drive champion of recent years, what mistakes he most frequently saw being made by long-drive novices. Without hesitation, he said that most opt for shafts that have too little torque. In his opinion, the most hitters needs "a little pop" to help the clubhead release properly through impact. By tipping his shafts to less than 2.5 degrees of torque, the average guy creates a situation where he has to struggle to get the clubface to behave the way it should. He loses the snap that is provided by extra torque. He ends up sacrificing both distance and control as a result.

Players should not get carried away in thinking that lower torque means better control. Not only are their results apt to be poor with an ultra-low torque shaft, their enjoyment of the process will be diminished by the harshness accorded by such shafts. Shafts with too much torque can cause problems with hooks and pulls, but those with too little torque can often create pushes and slices. The amount of torque that is appropriate will vary from player to player. Remember that anything under 3.5 degrees is LOW. Many golfers will hit best with torque in the 4.5 degree range – or higher. Only a few should ever consider going below 2.5 degrees.

 

[Loop]

Grazo, from my limited knowledge, the right-to-left on Irons and dead straight push on driver is purely an in-to-out swing. The only changing factor is the position of the clubface. You can easily attest that hitting an Iron (especially the shorter ones) is easier to close the clubface than with the driver.
So try in the backswing with your driver, to open the clubface more (I know this is quite paradoxical), and in the downswing to close it (by rolling your forearms/wrists). It's just that in the downswing, many people find it easier to go from open to square, than to get from close to square.

But since you don't want to change your swing, sling has provided great info on shafts torque.

 

[grazo]

Thanks Loop,

I hear what you're saying re closing the face. It's interesting you know, it's not that I want to hit a draw with the driver (although that would be nice) I just want to be able to keep it on the short stuff - I'll take a big high fade, but I can't get that to work either.

I looked on the Graphite Design website and the stiffness for my driver is recommended for 85 - 95mph swing speeds. I'm in the 96 - 104 range, so it may be that the shaft is too flexible...

Thanks again guys

 

[Rockford35]

G,

When I read your first post and then Sling's first response, all i can think of in my head is getting your right hand "over the top" a little more. This is a product of the inside out swing, but you're illustrating more of a "push" than a "draw". The high ball you describe is great for ball control, so i wouldn't shun it quite yet.

If you play baseball or cricket, try to imagine pulling the ball to your left. This is an exaggeration, but it sorta helps frame what i am trying to say. Move that hand a little over as you bring the club through the zone. Too much and you'll hit a duck hook. Too little, a push. With a few dozen balls, you'll start to feel that comfort zone.

I dunno if this helps, but i thought i'd throw my hat in.

R35

 

[grazo]

Rock

understand perfectly what you mean re right hand "over the top" - when I had a couple of lessons this is what my instructor was getting me to focus on and I think it has been ingrained in my swing (my "old" swing feels horrible now - I can barely get the ball in the air from all the thinning).

I'd like to know if you do this more with your driver than with your other clubs??

I fear that I will go to the range and straighten out my driver, pick up a 5 iron and hit duck hooks because I have become accustomed to really getting the right hand over the left??

Thanks

 

[Rockford35]

Well, yes and no. Confused yet?

With my driver, i usually aim for the right rough (to put this into perspective) on a straight hole. That means, i have to make more of an "exaggerated over the top" with my right hand with the driver than I do with my irons.

With the irons, my right hand move is more of a guide for my hands. I only aim maybe 2 yards right of the stick for an approach and bring it in nice and high (on a calm day). Now, for me, i'd rather hit a 9 iron from 110 than smash a wedge. It's all about control. If you have too much wrist with either an iron or the driver when you're hammering it, you're asking for trouble.

But, as I mentioned, i usually compensate for the driver, as it's in the air longer (the long high bomb that you mentioned, i love that trajectory) by aiming a little more into the rough on the right side.

This is all a feel thing. Try aiming at some flags at the range with various irons and driver and bring them into the flag from right to left. You start to feel where your wrists should and shouldn't be.

It will come with practice. Don't expect this to work everytime. Pros can't even hit money shots every time. Be happy with 2 outta 5 for now and work from there.

R35

 

[grazo]

Thanks Rock

I was at the range after work last nite and I tried a few different things but I just couldn't hit the driver with any kind of control. But my irons are really working for me at the moment so I guess I shouldn't complain right?

 

[Slingblade61]

NAY knave!

Complainest mightily! Beseech thine God for divine intervention!

"Verily my lord, why hast thou forsaken my drive? I smash yon little ball mightily with yon metal stick yet with thine composite implement of 400 cubic centimeters mine little ball will not be subjegated. An errant little sot it is. So by all that is good and holy I begeth thee, restore my mystical powers over yon composite staff, amen"

Something like that.

 

[Loop]

Grazo, I think I see the cause of your problem. I didn't knew you made a high launch with your driver. This would indicate that your swing is too steep. Try shallowing your downswing with your driver by practicing swinging over the ball a couple of times. Then take a whack at the ball and look for that nice straight draw

 

[grazo]

NAY knave!

Complainest mightily! Beseech thine God for divine intervention!

"Verily my lord, why hast thou forsaken my drive? I smash yon little ball mightily with yon metal stick yet with thine composite implement of 400 cubic centimeters mine little ball will not be subjegated. An errant little sot it is. So by all that is good and holy I begeth thee, restore my mystical powers over yon composite staff, amen"

Something like that.

very nice! work for you??

 

[Slingblade61]

Verily, young squire.

Thy lord is a loving God.

All ye need do is asketh.