Do you always play with ESC?

[BrandonM7]

Laser's post in the recent "newbie questions" thread made me think of this. I don't have a calculated handicap. I just play to play. Most of the time I keep score, but a lot of times I just play through and don't bother.

I was playing with a buddy for the first time a couple of days ago and he kept score for both of us (because I wasn't going to bother.) I noticed he was employing ESC for both of us. At the end of the round he "beat" me by 1 stroke, although without ESC I would've beaten him by about 20 (when he blows up on a hole, he REALLY blows up - but he's very new to the game, and he plays really well considering.) That just got me wondering - do most people play with a max score per hole every time they go out? If I did that I would've broken 90 a long time ago. In fact I'd probably shoot in the high-80s pretty much every time I play, because I normally have a few blow-up holes mixed in with several pars and the occasional birdie. Not sure I'd feel good about it, though. Unless that's the way everyone plays and I've just been screwing myself over on the scorecard the past few years.

So is this the normal way to score, and I've just been killing myself trying to score well with the occasional double-digit hole?

If this is how I'm supposed to be doing it, how do I know the max score per hole? Is it something to do with the hole handicap listed on the card? Admittedly I didn't read the USGA pages about it that Laser linked, so I guess I'll go do that now.

 

[FATC1TY]

Good point. I normally don't if I'm taking it as serious as can be..

However, I have played with people who do.. Like on a par 3, they would considering if they haven't gotten in, by 6, they just card the 6, and take it as that.. When they could has easily had a 7 or 8, even.

ESC is calculated, but some who don't carry a handicap will usually from what I've seen take double par as the excessive. Meaning nothing over a 10 is on the card. While I've never had to get 10 on one hole, I have gotten 9 on a par 5.

 

[BrandonM7]

Good point. I normally don't if I'm taking it as serious as can be..

However, I have played with people who do.. Like on a par 3, they would considering if they haven't gotten in, by 6, they just card the 6, and take it as that.. When they could has easily had a 7 or 8, even.

ESC is calculated, but some who don't carry a handicap will usually from what I've seen take double par as the excessive. Meaning nothing over a 10 is on the card. While I've never had to get 10 on one hole, I have gotten 9 on a par 5.

Breezing through the USGA pages right quick it appears that through their estimation methods my max strokes on any hole at my home course would be 8. That wouldn't help me a lot, but it would help some. The way my buddy was doing it was 6 max on the 3s, and 8 max on the 4s and 5s. It saved him a lot more than it did me. Of course he was also apparently using the "shitty chips don't count" rule that saved him a good bit, but that's a different story :ugly25:


Oh yeah, and if you've never gotten over 9 on a par 5, you're blessed. Toss one drive in the woods so you're hitting 3, take 2 more to get in the neighborhood of the green, flub a pitch because you're pissed, then pitch it on to the opposite fringe, 3 putt for 10 -- it's mighty easy to do. Especially when you actually count penalty strokes (which I've noticed most people I pair up with pretend don't really count :emot-ange)

 

[slickpitt]

Well back when I was a 100+ golfer... and I guess for the most part my 100+ friends, we used to use double par as the number. For me personally now I just score it as it is. If it's a 12, it's a 12. Worst score I can recall in recent memory was a 9 on a par 5. At that point it really starts to not matter because the round score is going to be totally screwed anyway and will get thrown out as far as my handicap is concerned.

To me this falls in the same realm as a really high handicapper playing the ball down and taking penalty strokes and stuff. If you shoot consistently 95+ even with taking mulligans and such, there is no reason you should be playing the ball down IMO... it just takes a lot of the fun out of it and slows things waaaaaaayyyyy down.

 

[kidzwitgunz]

Umm, I don't currently but that is just me personally if ppl I am playing with want to then that's fine with me. Personally I rather face all of the ugly truth if I blow up on a hole just because then I can gauge how I would recover/react a lil better, if that makes sense?

Then again I haven't ever paid to get my handicap either, I see golf as a strictly fun only hobby after playing through high school and two years for a junior college, I just play for fun and to try and beat my previous personal best.

Although I do think that using ESC would be nice for extremely new/high handicap players because I see too many people getting discouraged in golf because they can't play like the pro's etc.

When I started in JV golf in AZ the 2A rules allowed for this in that the max number to be taken on any given hole was no more than double over par. i.e.- 4 par = no more than an 8, 5 par= no more than 10 etc. This was done because it was the first year for actual competitive play in 2A south, there were a TON of new players, and we had to play before the Varsity so it helped to speed up play.

However if any player took double par it was marked so that if there was a tie the "winning" team was the one with the fewest or no double pars, I know it sounds weird but it worked since it was the first year of competitive play and it helped to ease me into playing competitively because it gave me a little more confidence/forgiveness. Sorry bout the long thread hope this helps! :thumbs up:

 

[BrandonM7]

Umm, I don't but tha is just me personally if ppl I am playing with want to then that's fine with me. Personally I rather face all of the ugly truth if I blow up on a hole just because then I can gauge how I would recover/react a lil better, if that makes sense?

Then again I haven't ever paid to get my handicap either, I see golf as a strictly fun only hobby.

Same here. I guess I was just curious because I typically shoot mid-90s with all of my screw-ups, and it seems that everyone I meet around here shoots 80s or 90s -- but then I pair up with them and frequently they're even worse than I am (which is saying a lot.) I was just wondering if most people are writing down those 6s and 8s when I'm putting down my hard-earned 10.

 

[kidzwitgunz]

Same here. I guess I was just curious because I typically shoot mid-90s with all of my screw-ups, and it seems that everyone I meet around here shoots 80s or 90s -- but then I pair up with them and frequently they're even worse than I am (which is saying a lot.) I was just wondering if most people are writing down those 6s and 8s when I'm putting down my hard-earned 10.

Yes that would be my guess, or they might even be just completely fudgin the scores who knows? Apparently the definition of playin em down is a highly fluid concept that is really more of a set of "guidelines" than "actual" rules......lol

 

[MGP]

Same here. I guess I was just curious because I typically shoot mid-90s with all of my screw-ups, and it seems that everyone I meet around here shoots 80s or 90s -- but then I pair up with them and frequently they're even worse than I am (which is saying a lot.) I was just wondering if most people are writing down those 6s and 8s when I'm putting down my hard-earned 10.

They are wrong. Your score is your score -- 12's and all. The only place ESC comes into play is when you enter scores for an official USGA handicap. That is where the scores are adjusted.

If you are beating them with an unadjusted score on the course, then you are beating them! If you are playing handicap adjusted, they should be recording their FULL score on every hole and adjusting on a per hole basis for their handicap. ESC is used to keep someone who plays consistently but has an occasional blowup hole from having an inflated handicap because of that bad hole or two.

This is all spelled out on the USGA web site in the section that explains the ESC and handicapping system.

 

[BrandonM7]

This is all spelled out on the USGA web site in the section that explains the ESC and handicapping system.

I started to read that, but it was a lot of words and I knew one of you guys would just come tell me and save me the trouble :beach3:

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

I was playing with a buddy for the first time a couple of days ago and he kept score for both of us (because I wasn't going to bother.) I noticed he was employing ESC for both of us. At the end of the round he "beat" me by 1 stroke, although without ESC I would've beaten him by about 20 (when he blows up on a hole, he REALLY blows up - but he's very new to the game, and he plays really well considering.)

The adjustments for ESC are not supposed to be done until after a round. So you would have beaten him by 20, he just would have had to adjust the scores accordingly after.

Here is another interesting thread on this topic.
http://www.shottalk.com/forum/shot-talk/8602-equitable-stroke-control-what-your-thoughts.html

This is not to say that I don't pick up my ball in non-competition when I reach the score allowed through ESC. Seems rather Vain that he would do so if keeping your score in comparison to his own. I certainly would not be proud to tell someone my score if I picked my ball up on 3-4 holes, I would likely simply leave it at "I had a bad round".

edit - BTW, I personally think that ESC is a crock because it was not well thought out, for the reasons mentioned in the other thread. Although I have change my practices slightly, because I am now only permitted a 7 on most courses as opposed to 8.

 

[SCGolfer]

As someone said he should take his score and then the ESC is figured when you input scores for handicap. I have a question that I think pertains to this. I input two scores from a couple weeks ago....same score on the same course but the handicap for that round listed beside it was different. I assume this is different because of the ESC adjustment or would it always be the same??


Jason

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

As someone said he should take his score and then the ESC is figured when you input scores for handicap. I have a question that I think pertains to this. I input two scores from a couple weeks ago....same score on the same course but the handicap for that round listed beside it was different. I assume this is different because of the ESC adjustment or would it always be the same??


Jason

I would imagine, although many courses require that you do the adjustment, and will not adjust for you. So if you just entered a overall score, it had no way of determining a hole by hole adjustment, which is how the ESC is done. So if it does accept hole by hole entry, then I would bargain to guess it will adjust for ESC. BTW, ESC Adjustment is based on the course handicap and not index so if you were off different tees, that could be the reason if it put you in a higher rating.

edit 1 - actually I see your index is 10.8, so there is no way it would be a different rating on a different tee. You would be a 7 on any course until you get below 8-9, then it would be questionable.

 

[kidzwitgunz]

Okay since I am not paying for my handicap etc........the ESC is calculated by the USGA's computer or software somewhere or the individual player? Seems like some dishonest ppl would take advantage of that, just me being paranoid though right?

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Okay since I am not paying for my handicap etc........the ESC is calculated by the USGA's computer or software somewhere or the individual player? Seems like some dishonest ppl would take advantage of that, just me being paranoid though right?

Hence the reason you are supposed to adjust after the round. By using the ESC, it is only going to lower your index. So if people try to do so, by all means, let them do so and play them for money.

It is a set standard scale based on course handicap. Actually, by you not using the ESC and playing in competition, you would be the one being dishonest, even if it was unknowingly.

 

[BrandonM7]

Cool, thanks for the answers.

Since you guys are in an answering mood, what do the hole handicap numbers on the scorecard mean? On my usual course (scorecard here) some of them are huge numbers, and I have no idea what they're for.