Draw vs. Fade

[cypressperch]

Dave, you and Seve and

Brad Faxon make me sick.:shocked: There is an often quoted story in which Seve was asked how he hit a draw or fade, hook or slice, or whatever. Seve looked somewhat confused because he had no real explanation. He just did it! Faxon's comment is just as sickening. It is sickening because there are those who can visualize a shot and through just athleticism alter their swing whatever way is necessary to produce the shot WITHOUT THOUGHT. Their sense of feel is very well developed.

I have been using this method almost as long as I have been playing golf. I can do the trick where I start a swing and someone calls out slice or hook, and I can then produce that shape by impact. It is easy to either let the heel or toe win the race back to impact. Of course, the straight shot is the hardest since a more specific impact is called for.

I still go through the business of lining up for a straight shot on the initial line I want the ball to travel, add a certain amount of closed or openness to the club face, RE-GRIP, and then make my usual swing as if I were hitting the just-mentioned straight shot. Of course, it does not end up a straight shot. Doing so has allowed me to develop quite a bit of control over my shots because of two factors. My swing is very much the same no matter what shape I hit. With the same swing, changes in the grip produce constant changes at impact. Visualization is still as important as ever. The method provides continuity. I have developed a lot of FEEL to go along with this, and that development has been easier thanks to having a precise, constant set up on every shot.

Lastly, I am certain that someone out there shapes shots a different way. They aim the clubface at where they want the ball to land and then open or close their stance and swing according to the stance. That is a proven method. I go with what I have described because I always want to have an intermediate target (near the ball) on the line I want the ball to be on immediately after impact.

Sincerely, Cypressperch

 

[ezra76]

Cypress. I've used your method with shorter irons and it is really a different flight IMO. The ball fades or draws on a much different plane, it drops in sideways on an angle vs. a flatter more sweeping shot shape. I'll be working on making more of an adjustment like you speak of. I'd like to tighten the up a bit. The spin produced by what I've been using is awesome when I get it correct though. I can stop a 5iron on a dime from 180 with a fade.

 

[papperlapub]

Cypressperch

Thanks for your thorough and detailed explanation; I think I will try your technique next time i will practice (this weekend), I have tried a lot of different techniques and most of them work alright, but they don't give me this extra feel and confidence (very important under pressure)...

I think your description will help a lot of the goflers here, high as well as low handicappers...

Greatings from sweden

:laugh:

 

[dave.]

Cypress

Seve was all in the hands,the most talented hands ever probably.His short game vhs is incredible,he goes through a whole vid and although its supposed to be how to teach the short game........................he never mentions technique!! Well barely,its all touch and feel this and softly that and floaty this,its just brilliant to put on if you accidentally turn the golf channel on and catch a nano second of Pelz.

I don't think feeling a shape is that hard,there is technique there.You set up closed for a draw,you move the ball back one ball and you 'feel' the shape with your arms,you feel the release in the practice swing and you may do more such as dropping the right elbow a tad (Faxon does that,so when he 'thinks' his draw he is also sub-conciously doing something to promote it)

 

[Fourputt]

I've always struggled with hitting anything but my natural shot on demand. But now that I have some more time to work on things I might start trying tl learn to play some different shots. I have a natural fade with my irons, but a natural draw with my new driver, and all with the same swing.

I have found that I can hit a knockdown draw with the driver that doesn't turn into a smothered hook, so that is encouraging, as I've never before been able to do anything with a driver before but hit one shot. I'm going to start working harder on my irons once the practice range opens the grass hitting area. I can't do anything with any club but the driver from the mats.

 

[cypressperch]

I remember when I first came in contact with

Jack Nicklaus's philosophy of playing a fade with the idea of taking one side out of the equation. Aim 10 feet left, ball fades to pin. If it goes straight, I am 10 feet left; if I get a larger fade than planned, I am still just 10 feet from the pin. That philosophy certainly workded for Jack.

Sometimes, a shot just looks like it was made for Jack's philosophy, and I will follow it. I have to confess, however, that most of the time, I like going straight for the middle of the green, or straight at the pin when the lie is good and/or I am in range of a fairly short iron. Why? I believe that if I am trying to hit the ball straight, my largest fade will be less than the largest fade that I might hit when I am intentionally trying to hit a fade. So, I am thinking that if I go straight for the pin, I might end up 10 feet left if I end up at impact with a slightly closed club face or 10 feet right if the club face were a little open at impact.

Also, with short irons, you have more loft. More loft imparts more back-spin which greater off-sets any side-spin that you might produce. It is for that reason that I have always wondered why anyone would want to have curvature in their short iron and wedge shots. Those clubs naturally yield less curvature, so why not use that natural tendency to your advantage. If you hit a short iron at the pin when trying to hit the shot straight, it IS going to go straight at the pin. It is true that you can hit a 2 iron at a target 100 yards away and hit it more often than if using a wedge, but out at the end of that 2 iron shot there is going to be a greater chance for curvature from the side-spin that is more easily created with less lofted clubs. Now if someone can just figure out how to get that super straight 2 iron to hold the green!:laugh:

Sincerely, Cypressperch

 

[Jules150]

In hogans five lessons he talks about different waggles for different shots. Ive started to incorperate that into my routine when i try to work the ball. I have a waggle for a fade and a waggle for a draw. I also close my stance for a draw and open it for a fade. Lastly i just think about the shot i wanna hit. I not that great at it cuz i've just started working the ball and i rarely work it on the course unless i have to. just try to keep it simple, i think the most important part is knowing what shot you want to hit and then visualizing it.