Play the ball as it lies question

[FATC1TY]

I play for a few bucks with my golfing partners, and we all allow relief from rocks and stumps..

Sticks, leaves, and plain ol' dirt... Play it as you can. If it's questionable, we all kinda come into agreement. Rarely happens that we have to do so.. We take our drop and our medicine, and move on. If they want to hit off the rock or path.. Do it, and you don't have to take the drop.

We don't turn them in for handicaps, and we don't play tournaments. So it's okay in my book.

 

[Fourputt]

Y'know.... I played a rough round yesterday. Had one shot from heavy rough and hit a tree root with my follow through that I didn't know was there, but somehow my 8I survived! I actually had 2 more shots from areas where tree roots were visible within inches of my ball. I never damaged either myself or my clubs..... amazing!

Reading threads like this you would think that it was a guarantee that the club would be broken and I would end up in the hospital.... I'm just astounded that I beat those odds. :emot-ange

 

[eclark53520]

Y'know.... I played a rough round yesterday. Had one shot from heavy rough and hit a tree root with my follow through that I didn't know was there, but somehow my 8I survived! I actually had 2 more shots from areas where tree roots were visible within inches of my ball. I never damaged either myself or my clubs..... amazing!

Reading threads like this you would think that it was a guarantee that the club would be broken and I would end up in the hospital.... I'm just astounded that I beat those odds. :emot-ange

I know guys that ride their motorcycles without helmets or any type of gear and drive their cars without seat belts and are still alive too....

Point?

 

[FATC1TY]

Y'know.... I played a rough round yesterday. Had one shot from heavy rough and hit a tree root with my follow through that I didn't know was there, but somehow my 8I survived! I actually had 2 more shots from areas where tree roots were visible within inches of my ball. I never damaged either myself or my clubs..... amazing!

Reading threads like this you would think that it was a guarantee that the club would be broken and I would end up in the hospital.... I'm just astounded that I beat those odds. :emot-ange

And....?

I've played out of a thicket of small pines and oaks.. My follow through with my hybrid to punch out hit a 6" around oak.. I didn't tear my club up, although I'm sure the sudden stop wasn't the best for the shaft..

Just because your Jesus on the course, and don't care about taking care of your clubs doesn't make you any better or anymore of a golfer than those who take a drop/stroke for getting into trouble. I certainly don't feel like gashing my $900 set of irons across a cart-path..I understand they are going to get beat up and used. Scratches, dings.. But if I can avoid literally destroying a set of irons... I would.

 

[Fourputt]

And....?

I've played out of a thicket of small pines and oaks.. My follow through with my hybrid to punch out hit a 6" around oak.. I didn't tear my club up, although I'm sure the sudden stop wasn't the best for the shaft..

Just because your Jesus on the course, and don't care about taking care of your clubs doesn't make you any better or anymore of a golfer than those who take a drop/stroke for getting into trouble. I certainly don't feel like gashing my $900 set of irons across a cart-path..I understand they are going to get beat up and used. Scratches, dings.. But if I can avoid literally destroying a set of irons... I would.

Never said I was, but most of the replies here don't indicate that they are taking the penalty, just moving the ball then trying to rationalize it. I don't really care what they do, it's their choice, but don't try and justify disregarding the rules just because you don't want to damage a club. Man up and take the penalty.

As I said, I had a terrible round driving the ball yesterday. Along with the shots that I did hit from ugly lies, I also took 2 unplayable drops. I simply don't have any comprehension of anyone who thinks that playing by the rules can't be as enjoyable as not doing so. For me ignoring the rules is less so, because I can't sit back and be happy with an 80 on the scorecard that was really an 85. Any score achieved that way simply has no meaning to me.

 

[FATC1TY]

Understandable...

I just think you came across as that those who don't play it as it lies, are simply un-pure and not playing golf. I agree that cheating and not following the rules, would easily leave me with it nothing more as a practice round.. I play to score well, and score honest. There are plenty of difference formats, and different local rules on courses.. Just because it's not your mantra, doesn't make it any less of a game.

I take my medicine if I'm on a rock and don't want to hit the rock. Same thing with embedded in the side of a bunker with church rows. I'm not about to snap my wrist off, trying to blade that bastard out of the hill. I'll take my stroke/penalty and move on, and next time avoid it.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Never said I was, but most of the replies here don't indicate that they are taking the penalty, just moving the ball then trying to rationalize it. I don't really care what they do, it's their choice, but don't try and justify disregarding the rules just because you don't want to damage a club. Man up and take the penalty.

Exactly who's rules are you saying they are trying to justify disregarding?

Last I checked, Golf has been around a lot longer than the USGA. If you follow the USGA rules when playing in a USGA sanctioned event then who cares how you play elsewhere as long as you are not in doing so giving yourself an undue advantage that would carry into the USGA sanctioned event, specifically if the cases mentioned are harming the person, as opposed to helping them when they play for handicap. For that matter, what is wrong with "Playing at Golf"? Arnold Palmer was a professional, and furthermore he got in a bit of trouble with the USGA for saying that he felt the ERC Non conforming club is probably a good thing for recreational golfers.

It actually seems to me that you are the one trying to rationalize the fact that just because the conditions of your course, allow you to play in the manner which you enjoy to play, that everyone else should do the same if they consider themselves a golfer. I just don't see it that way for most recreational golfer. If on the other hand you would like to publically acknowledge that you would be happy to reimburse anyone as a result of damage, then I guess you might have a leg to stand on with your prior comment. Seems kinda like you are saying, "I don't damage my clubs, so you wouldn't either, and if you do, then tough"

I have damaged many a club and had to file them out, or even replace them as a result. Have also suffered injuries as a result. Care if I send you a bill? Not sure I really care much if people consider me a golfer, as long as I do so with integrity when it is a sanctioned event or competitive event.

Just curious, what type of person would it make me if I took a penalty everytime I was worried of damaging my clubs on a shot that was playable, and in accordance to the rules of the USGA, then used that index in competitive events?

edit 1 - BTW, in the examples you mention of tree trunks around your ball, I didn't really comment on tree trunks, outside of saying I usually would consider them an obstruction to the swing or the path of the ball, but that is just me. Per what I mentioned earlier, and the same sense on what I mentioned about not taking relief even if my ball was in a animal hole as well. As far as, playing off one you didn't see, I am not sure I know the point of that, as if you did not see it, you obviously did use it as part of your evaluation on how to play the shot. In the same sense, I would likely not use a rock for a tee, because wood tees tend to do less damage to your clubs, even if they are not obstructing your shot.

 

[SCGolfer]

I don't think anyone said they were dropping out of the woods into the middle of the fairway. The course I played last week was in really good shape and on a par 3 I pulled a ball left that ended up in a circle of rocks and pebbles....I rolled the ball into the edge of the rough and played my pitch shot. Not really a big deal on a friday afternoon playing with my dad. In tournament play I would have played it no biggie but why tear stuff up with nothing to gain. I think in the case of a handicap you are only hurting yourself if you are making your lie better thus making your handicap better. Later in the round I had a ball roll up next to a big clump of some kind of weed right in the middle of the fairway in front of the green. Impossible chip shot....ended up running it all the way across the green and making double. Sometimes you create a rotten lie and sometimes the condition of the course does it for you.

 

[VtDivot]

For me, it makes no difference if it's a tournament or not. I play the same way even if I'm the only player on the golf course.

Why are you guys bashing this guy? He basically said the same thing as me, then got hammered for it by three or four of you? It wasn't until someone said he was in an ivory tower or jesus that he took offense??? I just don't get some people.

 

[FATC1TY]

I don't think anyone is bashing him.. I think it was only pointed out that he took a stance that everyone who didn't play it like he did, wasn't really playing golf.

I think that was the only thing that took place.

He has much a right to destroy his clubs, and risk injury, for the sake of honor and integrity for his game. I admire that, and I'm not against anyone who does it. But from the same page, I believe I'm no less of "player" because I refuse to destroy something for the sake of "honor" for a simple round of golf by myself. If I choose to take relief and my stroke, I'm playing it by the rules. I'm still playing golf, not "playing at golf" as it was referred to.

I just don't see the problem.

 

[twogreen]

Now that this question has been beat to death, should gimmies and mulligans be another thread?

 

[Fourputt]

I don't think anyone is bashing him.. I think it was only pointed out that he took a stance that everyone who didn't play it like he did, wasn't really playing golf.

I think that was the only thing that took place.

In case you missed my disclaimer, that was a quote by Arnold Palmer. I simply happen to agree with him.

And to PA Jayhawk: The Rules of Golf are NOT the sole property of the USGA. They are the same rules that golfers play by anywhere in the world where golf is played, and they are jointly agreed upon by both the USGA and the R&A. They are the outgrowth of the original rules of the game, first documented in 1745. To a certain extent the current rules still attempt to follow the same basic principles, that within the context of those rules, you play only your own ball, you play it as it lies, and you play the course as you find it. I simply adhere to that philosophy more rigidly than most recreational golfers.

I'm used to being called names for my views, I take it as a badge of honor. You'll never make me feel insecure or embarrassed because I simply happen to enjoy the game best when I'm playing it as it's meant to be played.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

And to PA Jayhawk: The Rules of Golf are NOT the sole property of the USGA. They are the same rules that golfers play by anywhere in the world where golf is played, and they are jointly agreed upon by both the USGA and the R&A. They are the outgrowth of the original rules of the game, first documented in 1745. To a certain extent the current rules still attempt to follow the same basic principles, that within the context of those rules, you play only your own ball, you play it as it lies, and you play the course as you find it. I simply adhere to that philosophy more rigidly than most recreational golfers.

There is nothing wrong with more rigidly adhering to such, and what you mention actually plays into the intent of my comment. Just as the USGA has adopted their own set of rules that coexist with the rules of golf, local clubs and establishment, and even recreation golfers have done the same. They have done so in a manner to better enjoy the game for what they wish to achieve from the game. To say in doing so does not make them as much of a golfer would be the same as saying that in adhering to the USGA rules would make them less of a golfer because they do not strictly adhere to the original rules of the game. While it is not so much an issue at my current course, at my old course they even usually adopted "Rock Rules" in much of the competitive play. It is just that common. Just as due to the toughness of the course, many of the leagues and such even state that the treelines should be treated as a lateral hazard. They leave it to the integrity of the golfer to use it in a respectable manner.

The key is, they are following the rules of the event, or local rules, even if they do not coincide with the rules of the USGA or original rules of the game. They are agreed upon by any competors prior to the round, and IMO are no more bastardized than the rules of the USGA and R&A, simply because they are an organization. Again, I just don't see the harm as long as you are doing so in a manner that will not give you an unfair advantage with any events that you consider to play. As implied before, I would have a far bigger problem with myself if I took a penalty on every similar circumstance, when I will in fact play out of that situation in competitive play.

I consider golf a game of evaluating the Risk vs. Reward circumstance prior to each shot, and part of that for me and in my circumstance does involve the financial risks of my clubs. If it is in an event that is important to me, I am more likely to overlook that risk as the reward is much greater. In a casual round I am not. I think for that reason, and in taking a penalty is the casual round, it would give me an unfair advantage in using my handicap. This is something I honestly feel, and am not trying to rationalize not taking a penalty. I also due so in a manner of evaluation whether the rocks are an obstruction, just as I would in determining if a tree is an obstruction for an animal hole. So there are even circumstances where my intent is to chip out. I may move my ball a foot or two off gravel, even though in doing so it now give me a shot at the green, I am still chipping out. I guess the difference is I am not looking at it in a method of improving my lie, and the thought never even crossed my mind. However, I guess I could have hit 3 off the tee, then played the same shot in competition, however then I would have a hard time rationalizing that as the right thing to do, and not taking advantage of the rules for my own benefit.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Why are you guys bashing this guy? He basically said the same thing as me, then got hammered for it by three or four of you? It wasn't until someone said he was in an ivory tower or jesus that he took offense??? I just don't get some people.

Only speaking for myself, but it was not the comment that you quoted, but what I perceived to be the the sarcastic, cynical and possibly even self-righteous nature of this comment that rubbed me the wrong way, and caused me to respond.

Y'know.... I played a rough round yesterday. Had one shot from heavy rough and hit a tree root with my follow through that I didn't know was there, but somehow my 8I survived! I actually had 2 more shots from areas where tree roots were visible within inches of my ball. I never damaged either myself or my clubs..... amazing!

My response was not bashing the way that he plays, or his thought process in doing so. And Fourputt, I mention that only to acknowledge why I responded in the way I did, it was my thought process in responding but not what I used to support my prior comment to you. Just didn't see any other way to say it here. Simply put, I am not sure I even see anything wrong with being sarcastic, cynical and self-righteous. I am sure I come off that way in many cases, but fully expect to have to defend my comments in being that way, as I am sure you expected to have to do the same.

.... I would actually have nothing but admiration for him for the quote that you mentioned VT. I find it admirable. As long as it is not presented in a manner in which it is the only way one should play to be considered a golfer.

 

[fisher]

Like I said early in this thread if you move your ball even a single time and it is not within the rules of golf your score is completely meaningless. Don't come back to me and tell me you shot whatever and you were moving the ball. I play with a guy once and a while who moves it when he doesn't like his lie. Every time he does it I pull a tee out of my pocket and throw it at him and tell him, why don't you just tee it up. This guy even wants to bet yet he won't play by the same rules that I play with.