Cast vs. Forged

[Rockford35]

None of this makes any difference if you can't hit the ball straight. Cast or forged, your game suffers regardless.

Here's something else to warp your brains.....have you ever given any thought as to how much of feel and feedback that is derived from the shafts themselves? Makes an enourmous difference.

R35

 

[warbirdlover]

It seems we're trying to discount the opinions of the last 50 years' worth of the greatest golfers on earth. Ask any good ballstriker if he can tell the difference between a cast and a forged club. The first guy who says "no" is lying about his ballstriking.

My guess is, most people who say cast feels the same as forged can't make contact with the sweetspot on a forged iron. Of course a mis-hit shiver from a forged blade is not going to feel much different than your average cast shovel.

But any ballstriker worth his weight in sand can tell you the difference between the feel of a properly struck forged iron and a cast shovel. A cast shovel feels dead - it feels like, well, nothing:

Off the toe = Thud
Off the heel = Thud
Sweet spot = Thud
Skulled = Thud

On a forged blade you can tell the difference, and no chemical or other formula can disprove that.

mr3856a

Cast shovel? 50 years worth of players used them because they had no CHOICE but to play forged blades, that's all there were before Ping came along!!

If you like the feel of your forged clubs fine, but the cast clubs (Pings etc) have been played on the pro tour for years and many wins have been chalked up by the pros using them. Must be the "molecules" were closer together on their cast clubs then mine. :laugh:

All I've heard for arguments on the better feel off the forged irons is the advertising jargon used by the club makers (other then bames, dave and a couple others). These guys are marketing people and not metallurgists. They use anything they can to sell clubs and don't care if it is backed by facts. Plain and simple.

 

[dave.]

I've come to the conclusion its the combo of blade/forging that makes the 'feel',not one or the other.Someone creams a blade they borrowed on the range then for some reason put it all down to the forging.Yet their gamer is a Pinseeker

 

[bstjohn]

There's a lot of hype on both sides of the "cast vs forged" debate and I suppose that there is validity on both sides as well. Me, personally, I can tell the difference when I hit my current irons (Mizuno Pro Forged) well vs when I struck my old Ping Eye 2 irons well. The Mizunos just seem to soften the feel of the shot and the Pings that I use to play still felt good but they did seem to (as it was said above) "thud" just a little.

I guess it all depends on personal preference. My brother swears by his Pings and he hates my Mizunos and that's perfectly OK because he plays what he likes and so do I.

:miz:

PS - I can't hit a forged blade to save my life but I LOVE the look and sure wish I could!!!!

 

[sidewinder]

warbirdlover,

We are talking investment casting versus forging here.

Yes, every material has a specific density but that density in not always acheived. The investment casting process does not provide the same percentage of density that is possible with the forging process. That is a fact. Yes, there are casting processes that produce castings with density as good as forging. But, the cost is prohibitive and would not be used to make golf club heads.

Mizuno may be overzealous in their marketing, but are not full of it.

S-

 

[sssmokin]

FYI Guys..........you might want to listen to Warbirdlover, because that is what he does for a living............he is a metallurgical engineer for one of the larger companies, and he is considered one of the World experts on the subject. He is asked to speak in seminars World wide on it, and what he says is fact. Like it or not.

 

[LyleG]

FYI Guys..........you might want to listen to Warbirdlover, because that is what he does for a living............he is a metallurgical engineer for one of the larger companies, and he is considered one of the World experts on the subject. He is asked to speak in seminars World wide on it, and what he says is fact. Like it or not.

geeez, gonna have to up my prices for all of WBL's gear from now on. I always thought he was just some PING lovin redneck LOL.

 

[sidewinder]

My family has been in the diecasting business for 100 years. My grandfather, trained in Germany, was the first diecaster on the west coast. So we know a little about casting versus forging too....

Anyone who says:

"You CANNOT change the steel density (laws of physics) or any other material density for that matter."

Is living in a theoretical world. Why? While steel does have a specific density, that is for a perfectly homogeneous example. Ways you can change the density of a casting include changing the gate configuration, changing the pressure, and by changing the temperature of the material.

I am not looking for a war here, but Mizuno is not blowing smoke. Compared to the investment casting process used to make irons, forging does produce a grain structure that is tightened and aligned, making the resulting steel more dense and stronger.

S-

 

[footballking732]

wow, two experts of their trade going head to head.. pass the popcorn..:laugh:

but i figured sidewinder had some knowledge in the area, it seemed like it...

 

[sssmokin]

LyleG posted: geeez, gonna have to up my prices for all of WBL's gear from now on. I always thought he was just some PING lovin redneck LOL.

He's that too, LOL.:laugh:

 

[warbirdlover]

Sidewinder,

You are correct in saying a casting is not "quite" as dense as a forging because of the inherent porosity in the casting BUT I believe this amount of density is very hard to measure and also that the golf industry uses the isothermal densification process I described above which WILL make them the same density. And it's not expensive anymore. If you have some porous casting you can fix them with this process. We have it done on critical castings. If your family does casting they are probably already aware of it. And what little difference in cast vs forged density there is you could not feel it. Hot isostatic pressing services, HIPping, metal densification - PTI

Like I said before the difference in feel (and I'm NOT arguing that there is some) is due to the softer, low carbon steel used in forging vs the harder stainless steels used in casting and NOT due to the density. The softer metal absorbs vibration better.

That's all I'm saying. And I believe it's dead on right. And this is where I quit talking on this.

:laugh:

 

[sidewinder]

warbirdlover,

I agree with all that you have said in this last post. Are the golf club manufacturers using a densification process, isothermal or not, on the irons after casting? If they are, and they didn't used to, I was not aware of that.

S-

 

[warbirdlover]

Sidewinder,

Ping is one of the most knowledgeable iron "casters" around since their MAIN business is making critical aerospace parts (which is why they're pretty "up" on technology). Aerospace parts (government specs) require that all castings be hot isothermally pressed (densified) so I'd bet Ping has their own units in-house to do this to be cost effective. Golf club surface finishes also must be absolutely flaw free. If customers ever saw any porosity on any iron Ping made it could mean the downfall of their business. This is why I think (at least) Ping surely would do this. As I'm sure you know any casting porosity is a real no-no to the customer. If you just run the parts through this process it would guarantee never producing a flawed iron and never risk losing sales. Oh yeah, forgot. When Ping started there was no HIP process so they battled the porosity just like everyone else. But I could be wrong.... :laugh:

 

[Hangfire]

Whatever your stance is on this issue I can say that we as a forum are very lucky to have such a wealth of knowledge on this topic. We also have a wide range of feelings (no pun intended) on this subject and that is one of the things that make this such a cool place to hang out. We can all disagree till the cows come home but everyone truly respects other opinions here... nuff said!

:miz: