The Fall of Cameron

[ManchesterGolfer]

For me buying Scotty's makes sense. As long as you don't buy new you DON'T loose money on them, like Ferrari's. Doesn't matter wether it's a production model or a Special edition, Scotty's hold there value and that says it all about the brand for me. The custom shop options are just a big bonus to give a quality product that person touch. Scotty's are class and will be around for a long while yet. You can get from A to B just as well in a Ford Galaxy they may even be more confortable than a Ferrari but the Ferrari is a Ferrari.

 

[emc]

I could probably have bought my entire bag twice over for 2 grand, so I'm not gonna spend that on a putter! The thing cameron has going is the association with Titleist which basically makes his putters mainstream, as opposed to about 1% of golfers knowing about Slighter, 350 milled, Byron etc.

 

[sidewinder]

Hey sidewinder, get some pics up of the new flatstick once you get it!

I don't have it, but it got stamped yesterday:

S-

 

[ezra76]

Wow, that's nice. What's left to do on it? Finish? If you don't mind me asking, price? I'll be looking for something during the offseason.

 

[VtDivot]

Wow, that's nice. What's left to do on it? Finish? If you don't mind me asking, price? I'll be looking for something during the offseason.

Slighter Golf :: Custom putters for passionate golfers by Tom Slighter

Get yourself a custom. I love my Bellevue, I was thinking of going Portland and asking Tom to do a low offset hosel on it instead of the full plumbers neck, but decided to go with the Bellevue instead. ZERO regrets. I would have been just as happy with the Portland also I think. The only Anser style of his I didn't care for was the Old Tacoma. The newer ones are ok though.

 

[sidewinder]

Wow, that's nice. What's left to do on it? Finish? If you don't mind me asking, price? I'll be looking for something during the offseason.

Ezra,

The putter head needs some detail work based on what I see in the pictures (burr removal, etc.). The sightline needs to be cut into the flange. Then the finish needs to be done. I went with the 3X Black finish which takes some time to do. Then the shaft and grip need to be installed.

It's $279.00 plus $10.00 shipping. That includes the putter with custom stamping, Nippon NS Pro putter shaft, midsize Iomic grip, and head cover. The grips and head covers come in a variety of colors. putter head finish options inlcude: Black Oxide (shiny), 3X Black, STD Oil (light brown), Dark Oil (chocolate), Very Light Oil (silver/brown look).

Interaction with the owners has been stellar. I asked for a head that weighed 352 grams and that is what I got.

S-

 

[sidewinder]

Oh, C & L Milled can be found here:

Welcome to 350Milled.com

S-

 

[ezra76]

Thanks Scott. That sounds like a great deal, I was expecting more, like $150-$200 more. I'll have to look into it.

 

[cyberious]

This was posted on wrx by jick. All credit of this post goes to him.

My comments inline not aimed at Sandpiper but at the author and I had to cut some of his stuff to make this all fit.

Posted bu lick? tick? Nose pick? on golfwrx.

The Wilson 8802 and the John Reuter Bullseye were legendary putters that lasted forever. Now they aren't being produced anymore. In the late 80's, everyone and his brother owned the Ping Eye2 irons. Today, Ping is no longer in the Big Three (Titleist, Taylor Made, Callaway) but have a smaller market of trickled down Eye2 fans and those who support US made product.

And his point? Thry have moved on to other names/brands. It is called Marketing. Keep an identifiable name to the product. Same as some poeple still calling Metal drivers and fairways "Woods" or copying machines "Xerox machines".

All good things come to an end, and the end of Scotty Cameron's domination in the putter wars is near.
Hmm last i heard about 48% of the tour used Camerons. Nike or Ely Callaway would give their right um...jubly for that market share.

Before, most of the top players in the world used a Cameron. Now, the only holdover is Tiger Woods while Els, Singh, Mickelson, and Garcia have switched elsewhere. And the putter Tiger uses is no longer in production by Cameron - a plain stainless steel Newport 2 model.

No Tiger uses a custom GSS Newport 2 model. Cameron still sells the Studio Style line with a Newport 2 model and will probably have another Newport 2 style next year. Even though it is an insert that is something that is currently popular. Next year model will be without an insert but will have adjustable weights on the heel and toe. A newport 2 is largely a newport 2 genius.


Aside from the top players switching out of Cameron, another contribution to his downfall is his failure to have successful original designs. The Futura line never really took off and has really low resale values when compared to even older models.

Hmm the Odyseey marksman looks an awful lot like the detour except with fairy wings. What top players? Those you listed? Phil is OK but inconsistant, Els couldn't stick a great shot if you gave him a golfball firing UZI and a thousand rounds. And both got lured away from Titleist by money.You know the green stuff that you can by stuff with except a new brain for yourself. Tiger who will probably own part of Nike the next time he renews his contract REFUSES to switch from his Cameron and had to be talked into even using a Nike headcover on his beloved Scotty.As far as original designs there isn't alot of variations you can make given the USGA rules. Callaway took the design of the FTi. And everybody copies the design of the original Scottish irons from a couple hundred years ago. Stop trying to sound intelligent. We can smell the wood burning.

The Internet has also been a place for information dissemenation, where Cameron's extremely high unconsciable margins have been exposed. Cameron started selling Newport 009 as custom order at $2000/piece.

Is a Ferrari work a quarter million? It has doors and an engine? What makes it worth more than a $200 junk yard special? The name and performance.

It is also in the Internet forums where collectors learned of many things such as: Bettinardi used to mill for Cameron but quit when Cameron wanted to go more mass market, or that Cameron outsources his production to other machine shops with a few lines being in the past being done in Asia

Duh...his first major market was in Asia moron. Japan was where he was first recognized as a skilled artisan. He has many putters released in Asia that aren't released here. He is very close to the people in that market. Great bettinardi wants to be small potatoes. Maybe Caneron wants to market a little more to support his family. I guess that is bad huh?


Other questionable practices were brought to light thanks to the Internet. What once was a badge of getting a putter from the tour van - the Circle T stamping is nothing more than just a money-making novelty from the Cameron Studio. Many Circle T putters never see the light of the tour van even if they are purported to be tour. Instead, they go straight to the his selected sellers. There is a tinge of deception in the Circle T brand nowadays.

And did the Taylormade "TP" equipment ever see a tour players bag? No. As far as GSS goes he produces very few hence the increase in price. Lots of companies advertise a special ingredient to differnetiate their product lines so what?

People have come to realize that not only is Cameron overpriced, he is also controlling the price of his own putters - thanks to his policty of limiting his authorized distributors for his non-production putters. This actually puts into question the "limited" nature of these putters. People who check eBay, and the TCC buy and sell have come to realize that these non-production putters aren't as rare or as limited as one was misled to believe.

And what about Ping? Go try and get a discount on ANY Ping club. They are everywhere huh? Let me go check my lawn. Hey guess what not one there. If say 5000 are produced world wide that is somewhat rare. Let's see 6 billion people on the planet and 500 putters, yep sounds rare. Cashing in on loyal customers or "loyalists" as you say hmm sounds like a businessman. It is called repeat business. Successful companies like that.

The most recent controversy, which has to do with the eBay Cameron putter milled by Bettinardi back in the day when the latter used to mill for the former, has caused a lot of outrage and resignations in The Cameron Collector forum because of Cameron's denials about his not knowing of the existence of the putter and his lies that it was "modified" when in fact all accounts and studies of the photos reveal that the face was milled before it was stamped.

Maybe Cameron doesn't remember does your boss know everything you do? No of course not. Do you occasionally do questionable things? Probably. Could Bettinardi take some stuff he was working on and gooofed off one day and not tell his boss? Do you tell your boss when you take too long in the toilet? Or make personal use of the copy maxhine or telephone?

Looking at the big picture, there are much more people leaving the Cameron fold and going to boutique putter makers compared to new people joining the Cameron-ving ranks.

And your facts about this are where? Not the 4 or 5 you mentioned earlier because that isn't a significant number. I was glad when Sergio " I can't make a putt" Garcia or Vijay "I miss 3 inchers" Singh left Cameron.


So a lot of things are coming together today that would bring about the fall of the Cameron Empire: (1) top players in the world no longer using his putter;

Blah Blah Blah. High MOI is not the end all be all of golf you still have to make a good stroke wheteher it is with a driver or putter. Hey maybe you should learn to play right instead of using technology to fix your poor swing. This whole section is as stinky a bunch crap floating in a dirty toilet as your post is ignorant. Look just because you think Bettinardi is great doesn't make it so. There are Cameron putters I don't like and several Bettinardi putters that I would use a wedge to putt with before I'd use one the Bettinardi to putt with. It is called personal choice.

Cameron was just a marketing genius who was on the right place at the right time. But now people have come to realize that there are others with more talent than him but did not have his luck and shrewdness. Or there may be people who aren't as opportunistic and profit-oriented as Cameron. Sure they have their principles but they aren't as rich as Cameron.

So they are bad businessmen and Cameron is a good one. The object of business is to make money isn't it?

Today, there are many who make higher quality retail products, and others who offer better customer service when it comes to customization options.

Still waiting for a good set of examples for this one

Believe it or not, the end is near. The fall of the Cameron empire is upon us

Poor conclusion from a poor hypothesis and a lackluster argument. You get a Dee Tee Dee award for being a complete tool.

Sounds like this guy has a personal grudge rather than a set of facts. Every golf manufacturer has issues in their business. This post is just really long and bores you in to agreeing with it when alot of his stuff is just ramblings from his on mind. If it was coherent I'd entertain his agruments. But it isn't. My 2 cents. Wirehair you want to weigh in?

 

[Sandpiper3]

Lol, great post cyberious.

I never even thought of the fact that the length and the tip toeing messes with my head into agreeing with him:laugh:

Although I would like to see cameron stop trying with detours and futuras and such, not one of them are worth a penny.

He needs to make a retail 8802 putter!

 

[cyberious]

Sorry no golf in 2 months and had to do house work today and I just finished half a bottle of wine so I'm a little pent up.

 

[ezra76]

I personally agree to an extent. I'd have to go all the way back to the Newport and Newport 2 to find one I'd actually want. Not the "studio stainless" crap either, no offense but that putter is very cheap looking. The Studio Design and Circa's look a little better but still that mass production cookie cutter look, not to mention they don't feel half as good as the older "Newport Beach" that 2fast picked up. I have no interest in anything they've put out lately, I'd buy an older one refinished or have it refinished first. I won't argue with the holding of value though. I've made money on both the Scotty's I tried and sold.

 

[VtDivot]

I personally agree to an extent. I'd have to go all the way back to the Newport and Newport 2 to find one I'd actually want. Not the "studio stainless" crap either, no offense but that putter is very cheap looking. The Studio Design and Circa's look a little better but still that mass production cookie cutter look, not to mention they don't feel half as good as the older "Newport Beach" that 2fast picked up. I have no interest in anything they've put out lately, I'd buy an older one refinished or have it refinished first. I won't argue with the holding of value though. I've made money on both the Scotty's I tried and sold.

I couldn't agree more.

I like the older Carbon Steel models, but maintenance is a bitch. I'd take a SS putter tho, 009 if someone gave it to me

 

[Slingblade61]

I never could get on the Cameron bandwagon myself.
Way overpriced Anser copies in my opinion.

 

[VtDivot]

Here's something interesting for you Slighter Fans out there:

Slighter Golf :: Custom putters for passionate golfers by Tom Slighter

I guess he had a Tacoma and a Portland made, and paid in full for both.