The Fall of Cameron

[ezra76]

I couldn't agree more.

I like the older Carbon Steel models, but maintenance is a bitch. I'd take a SS putter tho, 009 if someone gave it to me

I meant to say Studio Style. They are just really cheap looking. They must be making as much money off refinishing as they are off selling new. I can't say I know too many people who have purchased a "new" Scotty right out of the shop.

 

[wirehair]

My .02, I collect Camerons, and sorta have a horse in this race.

This post on WRX is a routine "Scotty Bash Fest" on an internet golf forum. A basically autonomous medium through which people have been known to spread fertilizer.

Scotty Cameron doesn't have an empire, isn't a god, and won't "Take over the World" (remember Pinky & the Brain). He makes putters, thats what he does. He does it very well for Titleist who markets their stuff as "Serious golf equipment for serious golfers." They aren't trying to, and don't aspire to appeal to the mass market. Titleist is an "elitist" brand, Acushnet has Cobra for the hackers (like me). To suggest that they care that Odyssey or Ping sells more putters & is thus proof of anything is a little like saying that GM cares that more Fords are sold than Cadillacs.

All companies of any consequence are well aware that their products must change and evolve, or they will die of stagnation. Scottys last efforts have been pretty poorly received by everyone. Let's face it, they're just plain ugly. They might be technological marvels, but still ugly and are not exactly jumping off the shelves. I'm pretty sure that Scotty knows this so I'd look for his next releases to be more reminiscent of the Gun Blue newports. They've already released a couple of samples on the tour of a Newport with replaceable tungsten weights in the sole (interesting combo of tradition & newfangled technology), and look for the Squareback & Fastback models. All will be stainless, carbon rusts & too many folks don't oil carbon putters then fuss and complain that they rust.

The "boutique" putter makers do nice stuff, but in terms of market penetration, they shouldn't be a huge concern for Scotty, Titleist, Acushnet, or Fortune Brands. You guys that are looking at one of these go for it. They really do make great putters, but don't forget George Palombi, for my money he's a wizard. However, lets pull Bob Bettinardi out of that category, I think that Mizuno is significant enough to move out of the Boutique catagory. Ping and Odyssey don't seem to sell many milled putters.

I don't care what Tiger, or Philly Mick, or Earnie play. In fact I don't really get excited by any of the ubiquitous "What's in the Bag" threads. I only care about whatever is in my bag. I know I'll hit it poorly, but I bought every club on purpose, for my own reasons. What Tiger plays isn't one of them.

Scotty sells headcovers for $72 or gives them away to pros, he doesn't sell them for thousands of dollars. I'm sure that someone paying a couple grand for a HC doesn't hurt his feelings, but it's all aftermarket sales. Definately has a Beanie Baby feel to it. I also wonder about the notion that Scotty is a Marketing Genius when someone else buys and resells his stuff for multiples of his prices. He does sell a handful of high dollar "Tour" putters, but I can't really understand why. I wish he didn't because it cheapens the special nature of the real Tour putters.

Many Cameron collectors do have their nose in the air. They seem to be a vocal minority, most of the collectors I know are pretty nice guys. Some seem to get real excited if I were to get a putter refinished by someone other than Scotty. If I were to say that David Mills, or even Satan himself (Tom Slighter), makes nice putters they'd force feed my drugs so I'd forget the secret Scotty handshake. Those guys aren't on my list of folks to play golf with anyway.

On the other side of the table, I'm pretty tired of hearing that a Newport is an Anser in new clothes or a Napa is a copy of an 8802. Everyone knows that, and I fail to comprehend the theological significance. I don't want an Anser, but an original 8802 would be a kick to play with.

The "skim milling" thing would be disturbing if it were true. It really sounds like more "Scotty Bashing" from a friend of my cousins ex-wife, twice removed. That doesn't make sense from a manufacturing standpoint & seems like it would be crazy to both forge a putter then mill it. Still, Scotty ought to make a clear statement denying or confirming.

I don't know how many of you guys are up on the Cameron Collector - Puttertalk - Mr. Doug - Vog - Scotty thing. I don't know anything about the deals done, or political mumbo-jumbo. That whole issue does have a smell reminiscent of 2 day old fish to me.

 

[Sandpiper3]

Great and informative posts Wirehair and Cyberious!

 

[RickinMA]

wirehair, have any links to examples of George Palombi's work? I googled it, but didn't find much

i laughed when you referred to Satan.... I'm 99% having Tom build my next putter - at some point I'll have to read whatever it is he's done to earn that name by some of the Cameron loonies - I've seen a few discussion threads, but after reading for 5 or so minutes they seem so ridiculous that I can't bring myself to read on

 

[figjam]

I've never had a SC in the bag, but I've tried them in the past and they are undoubtedly great putters, but I could never bring myself to shelling out such big bucks on a putter that didn't feel that much better than something for a third the price. I think SC putters are a little like Pings in the 80's, everybody who was anybody had to have one. SC putters carry alot of prestige. As time has gone on I think SC have come even more back to the field. I'm not talking 2,000 limited edition putters here, they might be all that and more, but as far as his mass produced putters go, I think there are a couple of new kids on the block that blow him away quality and price wise.

All the Yes! models have heaps better feel and technololgical advancements over the SC and are about half the price. The new version of the Odyssey whitehot have a softer feel and are even cheaper than the Yes!. I can't justify buying any new putter at the moment, but if I could I would definitely be looking at a Yes! or an Odyssey before a Scotty.

 

[sidewinder]

Ezra,

The CL-I can be had with a floating face for no additional cost. Some people call it a "sound slot" and some call it "beached". Regardless, that's a cool option. Loft and lie can be customized from stock (4º and 71º, respectively) as well.

S-

 

[dave.]

Wirehair

Its not so much a Scotty bash,its more rant against the santimonious 'holier than though we are all the best' type of whiners that post on the internet.These 'collectors' have tried to imbue their lovable trinkets with superpowers,and in doing so tried to present themselves as being 'special',that only they can appreciate the beauty of these things,only they have the special powers required to admire these things,that its somehow a special club they belong to,the 'all knowing' Scotty Cameron club.Not everyone obviously,but you get my point,there are people who post about putters who haven't clue about holing putts yet they are so far up thier own backsides with how much they spent on their putters they get cross when all you ask is 'do you now hole more putts'?.

They have basicaly diluted their brand and SC has no one to blame but himself.They went for glory and got busted.He has made millions from it so he won't be bothered and to be honest I doubt his marketing strategy would have been any different if he was.

Fact is the end of SC is nowhere near in sight,for every internt user that no longer values what he stands for there will be 100,000 kids watching Tiger and simply longing for a SC putter,and they will of course be amazed and whast on offer and yearn for the trinkets,they will be hooked,and so the circus goes on.

As a business model its successful,well done to the company,but for a few on the internet the brand is blown.I actually admire his skill tbh,same way Ia dmire how Leadbetter spotted an opportunity and grasped it,he realsied there was an opportunity for an uber-guru and he went for it,and with some skilled marketing and a basic knowledge of swing mechanics he made millions (and some luck with Faldo,despite the dodgy pants)

Scotty Cameron should be admired for what he has achieved,however many of his 'fans' on the internet should take any blame or any problems the brand will have in the future.I suspect though that in this case the internet is small fry compared to the number of kids in golf clubs around the world who aren't aware this conversation is taking place.

People,including me sometimes,take the mick out his lack of originality,but I wish I had spotted the Anser patent expired in 1981,it was a superb bit of opportunistic business,I can't think of many better in golf recently.

 

[wirehair]

George is in Ohio, probably the best way to get his work is through puttertalk.com.

A couple of years ago, if someone asked Tom to stamp a Circle T or a Scotty dog on their putter he'd do it. That's trademark infringement and contributed to counterfit putters being sold on the market. He's taken down the "samples" of those and reportedly doesn't do it anymore.

wirehair, have any links to examples of George Palombi's work? I googled it, but didn't find much

i laughed when you referred to Satan.... I'm 99% having Tom build my next putter - at some point I'll have to read whatever it is he's done to earn that name by some of the Cameron loonies - I've seen a few discussion threads, but after reading for 5 or so minutes they seem so ridiculous that I can't bring myself to read on

 

[ualtim]

All the Yes! models have heaps better feel and technololgical advancements over the SC and are about half the price. The new version of the Odyssey whitehot have a softer feel and are even cheaper than the Yes!. I can't justify buying any new putter at the moment, but if I could I would definitely be looking at a Yes! or an Odyssey before a Scotty.

I am glad the Yes! and Odyssey work for you, for me, I could not get the feel from my Yes! even with the Freq Filtered shaft install. The Odyssey white hot was softer, but provided zero feedback for me and distance control was next to impossible. IMHO, nothing provides a better feel/feedback than a milled putter. Use what works for you.

 

[warbirdlover]

I was ready to buy (desperate is the word) a new SC Studio series but tried them and just felt "ordinary?". I ended up with a Ping Redwood Anser. Played 9 holes Saturday. 12 putts!! Couldn't miss. Ping lives on!!

 

[Sandpiper3]

I was ready to buy (desperate is the word) a new SC Studio series but tried them and just felt "ordinary?". I ended up with a Ping Redwood Anser. Played 9 holes Saturday. 12 putts!! Couldn't miss. Ping lives on!!

Don't scare me like that WBL, I almost had a heart attack!:laugh:

 

[JEFF4i]

Mine was the Pro Platinum, the new Studios have a little bit too much...color...

 

[sidewinder]

I was ready to buy (desperate is the word) a new SC Studio series but tried them and just felt "ordinary?". I ended up with a Ping Redwood Anser. Played 9 holes Saturday. 12 putts!! Couldn't miss. Ping lives on!!

Both the Scotty Cameron Studio Style Newport series and the Ping Redwood Anser are milled out of 303 stainless steel.

I spent a fair amount of time looking at different milled Anser-style putters recently and found the Ping Redwood Anser to feel and putt no better and no worse than the Scotty Cameron Studio Style Newport putters with the GSS inserts. I think both putters are quite good but ordinary. Neither one is inherently superior to the other. It comes down to which one works best for you.

If you want something that doesn't feel ordinary, check out a ~350 gram Anser-style putter made out of 11L17 carbon steel. In comparison, milled 303 stainless steel feels harsh.

Scott

 

[RickinMA]

is there really that much difference between different types of steel? It's all steel - it's hard... no?

is it a different sound thing? (like the effect of the sound slot?)

I can understand that a rougher milling will make the ball feel softer, but could you really feel the difference between two types of steel if the design was the same they were milled the same?
I've seen the cast vs forged threads a ton of times, but can't help but think it comes down to club design vs mfg process

 

[wirehair]

If you want something that doesn't feel ordinary, check out a ~350 gram Anser-style putter made out of 11L17 carbon steel. In comparison, milled 303 stainless steel feels harsh.

Scott

There are a couple of other folks that have mentioned 11L steel. From what I hear, it's a higher lead content carbon steel. Some of the Betts, Byron & Palombi are using it. I've been thinking about finding one.