Erasing any doubt

[Harry Longshanks]

People need to start getting their heads out of Tigers ass (its probably a bit cramped in their by now)

Well sure. It's a little cramped. But it doesn't stink!

 

[Stanters]

I'm sure I saw Tiger at Carnoustie you know.

Aha, he didn't play so great - let's reach for the asterisk, it can barely count in that case.

 

[LyleG]

Paddy shot 66-66 on the weekend, on a tough as hell track, against a field with a scoring average of over 74 for the 2 days. History and stats show, that Tiger or not, Paddy wins this.

 

[sandwedge]

On another note, Paddy played great golf but needs to work on his fist pump. He looked like a Brokeback Mountain cowboy doing that fistpump after he made the putt on 18.

 

[Dave Ireland]

Good point my friend !! .... well if Paddy can scramble like Seve there's no reason why he can't fist pump like him also .. now that was a sight to behold .
No reason why he can't add a "fist pump guru" to his team ... surprised leadbetter hasn't snaffled that opportunity

I doubled asterisked Paddy's Birkdale Open .. coz apart from Tiger yer forgetting the hottest player on the planet wasn't there either ... hottest I mean golf wise ..not looks ..if the clarification was needed

 

[IrishGolfer]

It was but a few years ago that the media were condemning Podge’s ability to close out a tournament. A number of play-offs and near misses had him down as a choker, someone who would never close out a major. Even when he played in and was contending in majors over the past 5 years, the media only gave him a half chance of fluking a major only if it was played on a Links course. Ireland’s “Best Hope” was as good as it got.

Now he’s bagged three of the last six majors, everyone has now suddenly elevated him to Best Player on the Planet next to the immortal (but sadly lame) Woods. I’m not so sure.

Sudden is a key word here. Podge has been the archetypal slow starter. He had a great amateur career, but chose to study and finish out his accountancy professional exams as a fall-back, before throwing his hat into the pro golfer ring. He turned pro to be “at most a journeyman player”, just enough to make a living. He admits himself that he was going to give it a few years and then fall back on life as an accountant if things didn’t work out.

He was always a good scrambler and putter but he never saw himself in the same class as Europe’s (nevermind the US) elite. He turned pro in 1995 at the age of 24 and played Euro and Satellite events making steady progress, until the late 1990s when things starting happening for him.

He has worked incredibly hard over the last 13 years, making slow but steady progress. He has remodelled his swing via Bob Torrance, he has worked on his fitness, the mental side of his game, his course management, but still he sees himself as being in learning mode. He commanded one of the top European players slots and has now transformed into an International Player.

He has probably come about it from the other side of the spectrum to Woods, Michelson and even some of the new lights like Kim and Rose. These guys appeared on the scene suddenly from the very start and have lived in the limelight ever since. Paddy has snuck in there quietly and slowly.

Outside finishing T5 in the Masters, Paddy’s 2008 season was only average up until the middle of July, and that’s being kind. He kept saying that he was being patient with his mediocre results, as his game was good. But it was harly the stuff of 2nd best player in the world. His win at the Open was a relief to him in terms of Ryder Cup qualification. His win at the PGA suddenly made him huge. Take out the Majors this year and Mr. Podge’s only win was at the Irish PGA, hardly breath-taking.

OK so the majors are huge. At this level they are what counts and what define you in history. But you also have to deliver week in week out.

So I am going to stick my head out and say (unpatriotically) that I’m not so sure he is a legitimate number 2 right now. Certainly right now he is playing the “best golf on the planet”, but the World Rankings are not about right now. They are about consistency over time. Phil has been at the top for a long time. It will be the measure of Padraig to keep up this level of performance. For that I wish him well.

I think the guy is inspirational to so many of us mere mortal golfers. He is the guy who worked his ass off to get better and now is reaping all the rewards. I would love to see him go on and continue to build on what he has achieved and become part of history.

What impresses me about him is that he makes goals every year. To win his national Open and a major were his goals last year. I can’t believe that he set out to win two Majors this year. I’d love to see his list.

 

[Irish]

It was but a few years ago that the media were condemning Podge’s ability to close out a tournament. A number of play-offs and near misses had him down as a choker, someone who would never close out a major. Even when he played in and was contending in majors over the past 5 years, the media only gave him a half chance of fluking a major only if it was played on a Links course. Ireland’s “Best Hope” was as good as it got.

Now he’s bagged three of the last six majors, everyone has now suddenly elevated him to Best Player on the Planet next to the immortal (but sadly lame) Woods. I’m not so sure.

Sudden is a key word here. Podge has been the archetypal slow starter. He had a great amateur career, but chose to study and finish out his accountancy professional exams as a fall-back, before throwing his hat into the pro golfer ring. He turned pro to be “at most a journeyman player”, just enough to make a living. He admits himself that he was going to give it a few years and then fall back on life as an accountant if things didn’t work out.

He was always a good scrambler and putter but he never saw himself in the same class as Europe’s (nevermind the US) elite. He turned pro in 1995 at the age of 24 and played Euro and Satellite events making steady progress, until the late 1990s when things starting happening for him.

He has worked incredibly hard over the last 13 years, making slow but steady progress. He has remodelled his swing via Bob Torrance, he has worked on his fitness, the mental side of his game, his course management, but still he sees himself as being in learning mode. He commanded one of the top European players slots and has now transformed into an International Player.

He has probably come about it from the other side of the spectrum to Woods, Michelson and even some of the new lights like Kim and Rose. These guys appeared on the scene suddenly from the very start and have lived in the limelight ever since. Paddy has snuck in there quietly and slowly.

Outside finishing T5 in the Masters, Paddy’s 2008 season was only average up until the middle of July, and that’s being kind. He kept saying that he was being patient with his mediocre results, as his game was good. But it was harly the stuff of 2nd best player in the world. His win at the Open was a relief to him in terms of Ryder Cup qualification. His win at the PGA suddenly made him huge. Take out the Majors this year and Mr. Podge’s only win was at the Irish PGA, hardly breath-taking.

OK so the majors are huge. At this level they are what counts and what define you in history. But you also have to deliver week in week out.

So I am going to stick my head out and say (unpatriotically) that I’m not so sure he is a legitimate number 2 right now. Certainly right now he is playing the “best golf on the planet”, but the World Rankings are not about right now. They are about consistency over time. Phil has been at the top for a long time. It will be the measure of Padraig to keep up this level of performance. For that I wish him well.

I think the guy is inspirational to so many of us mere mortal golfers. He is the guy who worked his ass off to get better and now is reaping all the rewards. I would love to see him go on and continue to build on what he has achieved and become part of history.

What impresses me about him is that he makes goals every year. To win his national Open and a major were his goals last year. I can’t believe that he set out to win two Majors this year. I’d love to see his list.

All good points IG.. but in reference to the form of the early year. Podge stated that his playing calendar this year had been truncated a lot and designed with the specific function of success in the majors, He's played in 18 events this year. Won 3 of them, top 5 finish in the St Jude, the masters, the zurich and the northern trust pro-am. He did miss 3 cuts however, but his results in the majors this year...remember only for an opening 78 in torrey at the US Open he'd have been close to that too...

Again I never believed that he had the talent to do what he's doing but he's really got a steely belief in himself and the fact that this year his goal was majors (I don't think qualification for the ryder cup was that big an issue to him) and he's managed to win two of them and compete well in all four is amazing...

On top of that he's apparently a great guy and undoubtable a great representative for Ireland on the global stage

 

[Dave Ireland]

I can see both points and they're quite valid in their different respects. One thing is certain, and it's that history will judge Harrington's achievements,and looking at the history books, he currently should be viewed in the same light as Mickelson, Els and Singh as the winner of 3 majors .... how you view this group of golfers within the history of the game is your own personal opinion

 

[figjam]

I don't think its fair to Harrington to put asterisks next to his name for these two majors. He won his first major last year with Tiger in the field, and played fantastic golf to win his two majors this year. He is the real deal and his major record this year is twice as good as Tiger but with twice as many starts, so their strike rate for majors is about even. Sure Tiger won more events from less starts on the regular PGA Tour, but everyone including Tiger acknowledges that a players record is built around majors, not regular events. Look at Faldo, he is considered one of the all time greats, but his record on the PGA Tour outside the majors is not flattering. Paddy is a player who can produce his best golf under the severest pressure, which is the hallmark of a major champion. Sergio had a 3 shot lead at the turn, but got run down and lost by 2 shots. The old saying about putting for dough was never more obvious, Paddy makes 3 putts on 16, 17 and 18 and wins by two. Sergio missed all his putts on the same greens, twice from better positions than Paddy. Harrington just took it up a notch when it mattered and Sergio couldn't go up with him.

I also think that from the way he conducts himself after each win and during the presentation Harrington has shown himslef to be a great winner. No gloating or rubbing the other guys nose in it, just a gentleman all the way. His vcitory speech afer the Open and the way he spoke about Norman showed what a class act he is off the course as well as on it. I can't wait to see him go head to head with iger next year, as I'm sure both guys will be looking forward to the challenge of playing against each other.

 

[figjam]

.......Again I never believed that he had the talent to do what he's doing but he's really got a steely belief in himself and the fact that this year his goal was majors (I don't think qualification for the ryder cup was that big an issue to him) and he's managed to win two of them and compete well in all four is amazing...

Harrington probably isn't anywhere near the most talented player in the world from tee to green, but at the moment there is no doubt he is the best putter out there. His putting on the back nine on Sunday is what won it for him, and if Sergio had putted as well as Paddy he would have won comfortably. Harrington won it with his putting, and steely will to win. As some have said, most players in contention in majors look like they are hoping to win and hoping the other guys fall over. But Harrington has the eye of the Tiger (no pun intended) on the course on Sundays in majors. He is expecting to win and brings his best golf to the course. If you look at all 3 majors he has won, his Sunday scores are unbelieveable. He has shot under par all 3 times and has held his nerve on the greens better than anyone else. His putting effort on Sunday was every bit as good as Tigers efforts at Torrey Pines.

Something else everyone should consider when comparing Paddy to Tiger, Paddy has come from behind for all 3 of his major wins. Tiger has never come from behind to win a major, and he has been closer to the lead than Harringotn has been on numerous occassions and come up short. Tiger is the best golfer i the world and an unbeatable front runner, but as yet he has never produced the type of Sunday rounds Harrington has produced to come from behind and win going away.

 

[mk01]

Paddy is player of the year

 

[phatheadaf]

silly

:biglol:

"he's played 34 amd won 12...that an incredible record but its less than 30% of the majors he's played in...."

you realize what you just said there, right? how many other players can say they've won 30% of MAJORS in any 8 year span?

I don't think my head is in Tiger's ass. I simply can't help but admire the greatest sportsman of our time; beyond that, when the season started there was some discussion of him breaking some of the most hallowed records in golf including Byron Nelsons consecutive wins... even the possability of him not losing a tournament all year. By the way, all the while he was playing on a torn ACL.

Noting that, my point was, in a healthy season, playing at the level he was playing at, no I don't think Padraig touches him, period. He wins player of the year, again. Nobody is on Tiger's level right now, and by the time he is done it's likely that will include everyone that has ever played the game.

You may dislike what Tiger has done to the game, by dominating the attention span of the sport; however, you must admit, there is a very distinct reason as to why... which is more than well earned.

I ask you this: noting where Tiger's game was at when he went down, had he been healthy, and you had to wager the most important thing in your life on Pedraig or Tiger in either the British or the PGA this year, who would you pick?

Say what you want, we know the truth. Like I said in the original post, Pedraig is on top of his game, and the rest of the golf world right now.... just minus Tiger Woods. There is no shame in that. Facts are facts, he plays in the time of a legend that transcends the game. As great as Harrington's sesaon is, he is having it after Tiger broke down, after racking up 6 wins in 8 starts and winning a 91 hole playoff at the US Open.

Give Harrington his just due, unfortunately history will remember this season more for Tiger's US Open drama, and injury; not what Harrington did, POY or not.

A.

PS - I love the debate, I hope the post exchange doesn't come off curt, as that is not my intention...rop:

 

[JEFF4i]

Wait wait wait...less than 30%? Who said that?

12/34 is 35.2%

 

[Eracer]

Wait wait wait...less than 30%? Who said that?

12/34 is 35.2%

Which is of course superhuman.

 

[JEFF4i]

Which is of course superhuman.

Simply percentage wise(with some scrutiny to time and tournaments played) Tiger is without a doubt the best golfer to have graced the PGA. No doubt.